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Old 11-05-2004, 01:25 PM   #21
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Opps, I see it is already there.......never mind.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:47 PM   #22
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Actually, and not that I want to include the government, but if the main wholesalers were given so many corals that would not impact the ocean to aquaculture and the corals on the outer edges of the reefs that are depleteing, since that would be a better chance for life. Once the wholesalers have a good supply (and it would probabally have to undergo education classes from the government to qualify them for this), then this system could be implemented: corals from the government apporoved whosalers go to the LFS's to be sold, THEN once we get them, give back 10% back to the LFS to re-sell. I know I know, it's a system that would require many checks and balances and the wholesalers might not be able to keep up demand. But ya never know, something along those lines might work? QS, thats a good idea!
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Alex n Mary

150 gallon, 30g fuge/sump, 4.5 watt/gal VHO Lighting, 4" sand bed, 290 lbs LR, CDX-3 Nitrate/Phosphate filter

Female Naso "Isabell" or "Izzy", Emperor Angelfish, Flame Angel, Red Sea Sailfin tang "Bambi", Maroon Clown "Nani", 5 Chromis, 1 Aglae Blenny "Bengi" , Yellow Watchman Goby, pr of Banggai Cardinals, Lyretail Anthia, Six Line Wrasse

1 cleaner shrimp, Coral Banded Shrimp, lettuce nudibranch, 1 sand sifter stars, 1 tiny red brittle star "red", 1 tiny red and white banded serpent star, 2 tiny banded serpent stars, small orange Linkia starfish, assorted hermits and snails. Corals: star polyps, A ton of different types of mushrooms, yellow zooanthids, brown-orangish and light blue paly's, orange ricordia.

90g RR, W/D, 120 lb's LR SF eel, pygmy angel, pr sebae clownfish, 4 chromis. Star Polyps & Mushrooms
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:54 PM   #23
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oh and also a certain percentage going back to the ocean from the wholesalers in areas where new reefs are being built
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Alex n Mary

150 gallon, 30g fuge/sump, 4.5 watt/gal VHO Lighting, 4" sand bed, 290 lbs LR, CDX-3 Nitrate/Phosphate filter

Female Naso "Isabell" or "Izzy", Emperor Angelfish, Flame Angel, Red Sea Sailfin tang "Bambi", Maroon Clown "Nani", 5 Chromis, 1 Aglae Blenny "Bengi" , Yellow Watchman Goby, pr of Banggai Cardinals, Lyretail Anthia, Six Line Wrasse

1 cleaner shrimp, Coral Banded Shrimp, lettuce nudibranch, 1 sand sifter stars, 1 tiny red brittle star "red", 1 tiny red and white banded serpent star, 2 tiny banded serpent stars, small orange Linkia starfish, assorted hermits and snails. Corals: star polyps, A ton of different types of mushrooms, yellow zooanthids, brown-orangish and light blue paly's, orange ricordia.

90g RR, W/D, 120 lb's LR SF eel, pygmy angel, pr sebae clownfish, 4 chromis. Star Polyps & Mushrooms
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:58 PM   #24
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Nice, might work. Worth some thought thats for sure.
Also, encourage independent fish farmers to further the technologies in breeding more species of fish. 5 of my fish are tank raised (including the one in my avatar). I would buy all tank raised fish if they were available for a reasonable price.
Would love to see solutions within the industry, without the govt's involvment. LR.com has the right Idea. Perhaps companies like them could aquaculture some coral species on the LR they are developing in the gulf and other places as well.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:18 PM   #25
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I am with you on not involving the government, but it may be that they involve themselves if we don't find solutions of our own like you suggest. I know LR.com is aquaculture, but I have never been told how they do it. Do they put the lime rock there themselves?
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Alex n Mary

150 gallon, 30g fuge/sump, 4.5 watt/gal VHO Lighting, 4" sand bed, 290 lbs LR, CDX-3 Nitrate/Phosphate filter

Female Naso "Isabell" or "Izzy", Emperor Angelfish, Flame Angel, Red Sea Sailfin tang "Bambi", Maroon Clown "Nani", 5 Chromis, 1 Aglae Blenny "Bengi" , Yellow Watchman Goby, pr of Banggai Cardinals, Lyretail Anthia, Six Line Wrasse

1 cleaner shrimp, Coral Banded Shrimp, lettuce nudibranch, 1 sand sifter stars, 1 tiny red brittle star "red", 1 tiny red and white banded serpent star, 2 tiny banded serpent stars, small orange Linkia starfish, assorted hermits and snails. Corals: star polyps, A ton of different types of mushrooms, yellow zooanthids, brown-orangish and light blue paly's, orange ricordia.

90g RR, W/D, 120 lb's LR SF eel, pygmy angel, pr sebae clownfish, 4 chromis. Star Polyps & Mushrooms
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:24 PM   #26
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I believe so. From my brief conversation with them, they seem to be heavily regulated by the federal govt.
I can't remember the time period, but they have a specific area to place the rock for seeding and a specific time period it spends there.
Quote:
I am with you on not involving the government, but it may be that they involve themselves if we don't find solutions of our own like you suggest.
Of course, you are right. Hey, lets put you in charge!! Go getter.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:41 PM   #27
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One more thing. If we MUST have govt involvement, perhaps a criteria could be set up and a licence could be created to sell SW stock. This would allow for more accountability all the way down the line and perhaps improve the hobby's reputation for those who don't have a clue (like congress).
criteria for a licence could include:
Using only aquacultures rock, buying from wholesalers that capture animals in humane ways and/or tank raised animals and educating consumers (correctly) on how properly keep a SW setup.
It could be kept simple (ya right), but go a long way to preserving our hobby and maybe making some improvements within it.
I don't like govt involvement in much of anything, but in our case it sounds like it may be inevitable.
Don't flame me too bad, just a thought.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:51 PM   #28
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I agree w/ ya 100%
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Alex n Mary

150 gallon, 30g fuge/sump, 4.5 watt/gal VHO Lighting, 4" sand bed, 290 lbs LR, CDX-3 Nitrate/Phosphate filter

Female Naso "Isabell" or "Izzy", Emperor Angelfish, Flame Angel, Red Sea Sailfin tang "Bambi", Maroon Clown "Nani", 5 Chromis, 1 Aglae Blenny "Bengi" , Yellow Watchman Goby, pr of Banggai Cardinals, Lyretail Anthia, Six Line Wrasse

1 cleaner shrimp, Coral Banded Shrimp, lettuce nudibranch, 1 sand sifter stars, 1 tiny red brittle star "red", 1 tiny red and white banded serpent star, 2 tiny banded serpent stars, small orange Linkia starfish, assorted hermits and snails. Corals: star polyps, A ton of different types of mushrooms, yellow zooanthids, brown-orangish and light blue paly's, orange ricordia.

90g RR, W/D, 120 lb's LR SF eel, pygmy angel, pr sebae clownfish, 4 chromis. Star Polyps & Mushrooms
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:55 PM   #29
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The though of seeding the reefs with aquacultured corals is not new. I heard a speaker last year I belive talking about that very thing. The issue they discovered was the huge amount of time it takes. Producing the small reef plugs with concrete and curing it. Then drilling into the reef and securing these plugs that have coral frags attached took so much time and expense. The other issue is what parasites and diseases we would be introducting into the wild from our tanks. We as hobbists have a very bad habit of putting corals and fish from totally different parts of the ocean together. Disease can be transmitted into the wild with the potental for acutal damage due to our saving efforts.

As was described any LR that comes from FL is aquacultured rock. They purchase a bunch limestone type rock that is taken from land quaries. This is then transported to a special plot of ocean bottom on barges. It is then 'dumped' into the ocean in this specific aquaculture plot. After a few years what you end up with is some nice quality live rock. The aquaculture plots are highly regulated and the location of the plots is done with fairly strict rules. I belive you have to do a survey of the ocean bed where you want to do a plot and have to document the amount of life on the bottom before you add rock.

Below is an excerpt from an e-mail I got back from the Director of Reef Protection International.

Quote:
Well, the easiest answer to this absolute misperception is to look at the
election results. If one understands the legislative process, and the agenda
of the current legislature, they will know that any conservation bills will be
given short shrift. That's the reality.

Of course, Ed Case has been re-elected and will probably re-introduce his bill.
The question will be how well he does in gaining co-sponsors. This, coupled
with recommendations made by the U.S. Coral Reef Task Force may end up keeping the dialogue for coral reef conservation going.
Look for much more information about this orginization to be posted here at AA over the comming months.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:56 PM   #30
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This whole discussion may speed up some plans I had for writting some additional content for our site.
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