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Old 08-20-2010, 12:29 AM   #11
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only thing with the shrimp is how do you know its conditions in which it was kept poor water quailty and everything with it will come out into your tank. you want your tank as pure as possible so why add shrimp which could bring in something bad?
Unless you are suggesting some kind of pollution (heavy metals, chemicals) coming from the shrimp, water quality doesnt matter while cycling.

I dont know about your cycles, but mine always have poor water quality. (ammonia, nitrates, ect.)

Matt
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:36 AM   #12
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just pulled this quote from a link recommended to me during my cycle

"There are other methods of fishless cycling being recommended or used however one method being pushed on the internet is the use of Raw Shrimp; however this is a recycled idea (which included the use of silversides, frozen shrimp, and even dead feeder fish) and has reappeared on the internet even though it was debunked in the early 1990s.

I do not recommend this method, not because it does not work for cycling, but because it may also allow a Saprolegnia infection to get started in your new aquarium. Saprolegnia is a mold (often called a fungus) that easily gets a foot hold in decaying nitrogenous matter such as raw shrimp and I have seen this many times in my experiments. Even after the source of Saprolegnia growth is removed, the secondary zoospores which are the primary mode of pathogenic transmission can remain, even after large water changes/vacuumings.
A new tank is the worst time to have a Saprolegnia infection get started as this is when fish are often much less resistant to disease due to the stressor of a new tank environment."

However

"My preferred cycling method is to transfer filter media (sponges work well as Autotrophic nitrifying bacteria tend to cling to sponge media in high quantities and sponge media is easily transferred), although floss, ceramic media, volcanic rock, etc.are also fine from an established aquarium and possibly along with some gravel, then introduce the fish SLOWLY after 3-7 days."

"For marine tanks the use of seasoned or “cured” live rock serve this purpose quite well. I recommend this method even more with Marine tanks using seasoned (cured) live rock and/or live sand as well as filter media. In Marine tanks I still prefer to added aged media (not essential, but still better) along with 1-2 lbs (2.2 -4.4 kg) CURED live rock per gallon (approx. 4 liters)."
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:46 AM   #13
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i am suggesting that. and still itd leak into your water and to get rid of it youd have to remove everything which would be basically ruining your cycle. and i agree with the post above +1
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:04 AM   #14
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just pulled this quote from a link recommended to me during my cycle

"There are other methods of fishless cycling being recommended or used however one method being pushed on the internet is the use of Raw Shrimp; however this is a recycled idea (which included the use of silversides, frozen shrimp, and even dead feeder fish) and has reappeared on the internet even though it was debunked in the early 1990s.

I do not recommend this method, not because it does not work for cycling, but because it may also allow a Saprolegnia infection to get started in your new aquarium. Saprolegnia is a mold (often called a fungus) that easily gets a foot hold in decaying nitrogenous matter such as raw shrimp and I have seen this many times in my experiments. Even after the source of Saprolegnia growth is removed, the secondary zoospores which are the primary mode of pathogenic transmission can remain, even after large water changes/vacuumings.
A new tank is the worst time to have a Saprolegnia infection get started as this is when fish are often much less resistant to disease due to the stressor of a new tank environment."

However

"My preferred cycling method is to transfer filter media (sponges work well as Autotrophic nitrifying bacteria tend to cling to sponge media in high quantities and sponge media is easily transferred), although floss, ceramic media, volcanic rock, etc.are also fine from an established aquarium and possibly along with some gravel, then introduce the fish SLOWLY after 3-7 days."

"For marine tanks the use of seasoned or “cured” live rock serve this purpose quite well. I recommend this method even more with Marine tanks using seasoned (cured) live rock and/or live sand as well as filter media. In Marine tanks I still prefer to added aged media (not essential, but still better) along with 1-2 lbs (2.2 -4.4 kg) CURED live rock per gallon (approx. 4 liters)."
This guy is totally out of touch if he is suggesting "lava rock".
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:07 AM   #15
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The thing that I find troubling about the fungus theory is that raw food (mysis, brine shrimp, ect.) is used by many people to feed their fish as well as cycle a tank. I have yet to hear of a case where someone had some kind of mold develop in their tank.

Many, many people use raw shrimp as an ammonia source for their tanks.
Maybe this could explain the many unexplained fish deaths we hear about?

EDIT: Im sure that one could run carbon after their first water change if they are really that worried about contaminants. Ive never heard of any studies that resulted in hard facts to prove adding a shrimp has any detrimental effects other than nutrients for algae. People eat plenty of shrimp too.

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Old 08-20-2010, 07:55 AM   #16
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This guy is totally out of touch if he is suggesting "lava rock".

+1 on that....RIP kenya tree's..... wish i had read more first.....
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:20 PM   #17
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The thing that I find troubling about the fungus theory is that raw food (mysis, brine shrimp, ect.) is used by many people to feed their fish as well as cycle a tank. I have yet to hear of a case where someone had some kind of mold develop in their tank.

Many, many people use raw shrimp as an ammonia source for their tanks.
Maybe this could explain the many unexplained fish deaths we hear about?

EDIT: Im sure that one could run carbon after their first water change if they are really that worried about contaminants. Ive never heard of any studies that resulted in hard facts to prove adding a shrimp has any detrimental effects other than nutrients for algae. People eat plenty of shrimp too.

Matt
we arent talking about what we feed our fish because its doubtful they would be in the same water quailties since there are purposefully kept clean to feed. if you feed shrimp from the grocery store. you gotta get new food. and i have ive heard of 5 tanks in the past 2 months that there shrimp leaked copper into the tank.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:32 PM   #18
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I do not recommend this method, not because it does not work for cycling, but because it may also allow a Saprolegnia infection to get started in your new aquarium. Saprolegnia is a mold (often called a fungus) that easily gets a foot hold in decaying nitrogenous matter such as raw shrimp and I have seen this many times in my experiments. Even after the source of Saprolegnia growth is removed, the secondary zoospores which are the primary mode of pathogenic transmission can remain, even after large water changes/vacuumings.
A new tank is the worst time to have a Saprolegnia infection get started as this is when fish are often much less resistant to disease due to the stressor of a new tank environment."
You realize that Saprolegnia is a FRESHWATER mold right? So that has absolutely no bearing? The raw shrimp I buy is food grade for humans, and fresh. I have cycled probably 8+ tanks and run them for years with no problems.

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Originally Posted by ilostnemo View Post
i am suggesting that. and still itd leak into your water and to get rid of it youd have to remove everything which would be basically ruining your cycle. and i agree with the post above +1
Could you go ahead and link us to one instance/study/anything to prove that theory? As far as I know, I've never heard of this happening..ever.

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Originally Posted by ilostnemo View Post
and i have ive heard of 5 tanks in the past 2 months that there shrimp leaked copper into the tank.
Could you PM me these examples? I would be curious to see where they got their shrimp from and how they deduced that it could only have been the shrimp.

If you two are going to advise a new person on things that are against the accepted norm, please supply greater proof, people actually come here for real advise.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:54 PM   #19
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+1 Jimbo (if it would let me )

All this is beginning to sound crazy to me. Shrimp that cause fungus infestations...Leak copper...

Not trying to pick on anyone, just pointing out that you cant make wild statements without evidence. Id kill for some of the tanks that the pros here have, and they have all advised the use of food grade shrimp to cycle a tank.

Think about it. Food grade shrimp is inspected and cleared for human consumption.

Id also like to see a SCIENTIFIC study that shows that dangerous levels of anything are found in common food shrimp.

Aquarium food mysis is cleaner than shrimp from the fishmarket? Want to back that up with a bite of mysis?

Matt
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:45 AM   #20
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my statements come from people coming into my work a lfs and telling me and hmm if the shrimp is the only thing in the tank and it shows copper pretty much saying its the shrimp.. and so catfish is cleared for human consumption and you realize they eat everything i mean everything..
and yeah id actually eat mysis i have before didnt get sick or anything
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