Help! Newbie trying to manage an existing marine aquarium

[walts7598]

Hi all, hope you can offer insight/advice. I am concerned about flow/circulation to my setup. In brief:

90 gallon marine tank w/sump system, protein skimmer and chiller (that I don't think works).
Water delivery: outlet at the top of the tank
Water return: overflow design also at the top of the tank
Pump: 3MDQX-SC Little Giant pump that replaced a 4MDQX-SC pump that recently burned out.
The catch: ~16 foot vertical headspace

When I tested the flow, I calculated it to be around 150 gallons/hour. Circulation on the top half of the tank is pretty lackluster, can't really detect circulation on the bottom portion of the tank. I'd like to start out with a few fish (clowns, tangs, etc.), but would like the ability to do something more complex if possible, later on.

The solutions I came up with were to:
1) replace the newly replaced pump with a bigger one
2) buy another more powerful pump and run it parallel to the existing
3) buy a submersible pump for the tank to gain better circulation

I would prefer not to rearrange the tank to reduce the vertical head unless absolutely necessary since it will be a major pain. Any thought would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Mitchell0605]

Look at some Koralia PH's (Power Heads). Try 2/3. Point them at eachother, angled towards the centre of the tank. This should create some random turbulent flow.

As for fish, in a 90G the only tank that you can really fit is a Yellow Tang. Some little Clowns are great hardy fish, I would recommend them to anyone.

 

[austinsdad]

That turnover of less than 2x per hour, (150g / 90g) isn't good. I'm not one to help with the physics application, but any overflow ("outlet at the top of the tank", overflow tube or box) is only gonna be rated for a max amount of gph. Need to find out what that is. Post the size of that outlet and maybe someone can calculate what that max gph is that'll run thru there.

I'm hoping you could shoot to increase that 150gph to around 1000 for better reefing opportunities later as you say.

The powerheads/"submersible pumps" are considered a "flow rate". They just provide the underwater "breeze". Good flow rates are nice to as corals love it up to the point your fish and sand can stand it. The pump is more about the tank's "turnover rate" and how much is being filtered every hour. The more the better IMO.

 

[cmor1701d]

+1 for above comments. You need both a tank volume turnover and interna tank flow. The original pump would give you about 550gph which is probably close to the what the overflow is rated at. I'm guessing the overflow is rated at 600gph, but we need more info, like make and model or tube size.
In the Little Giant Quantum series
MDQX-SC is rated for 675 at 12'HH
5-MD is rated for 747 at 12'HH'

Hy-Drive Pond Master Pro Proline
Pro 2100-XP Hy-Drive(gph) will give 850gph at 15' HH
Pro 4800-XP Hy-Drive(gph) will give 800gph at 15' HH

A Blue Line 100 would probably also do the job.

You should do some online research to determine the overflow rating and match a pump to that. It may take a phone call to get the pump rating at 16' HH

The new Koralia power heads are smaller than the previous version, conusme less electricity and move more water. A couple of those on opposite side of the tank pointing upwards and towards each other should give you plenty of flow.

I also agree that a YT is the only tang you should put in that length tank.

Good luck

 

[cmor1701d]

Oh, I almost forgot:

 

[Mitchell0605]

I love that animation. :

 

[walts7598]

Thanks!

Thanks so much for the advice!! The tank dimensions are:
Length: 46.5"
Width: 15"
Height: 27"

Overflow dimensions (fixed in a corner of the tank):
Length: 5"
Width: 4.5"
Height: 27"

I have ~1.5" of gravel in the bottom. The tank was custom made. The overflow has 1/4" x 2" slits cut on both sides (8 per side) to allow the water to drain. The diameter of the water delivery hose is 1" and the return pipe looks to be 1.5" in diameter.

The sump dimensions are:
Length: 28"
Width: 10"
Height: 12"

Does this help? Would love to get fish into there sooner or later, but just can't seem to get the environment quite right! I'm doing water changes now since the nitrate level was >200 and still is pretty high. It's growing a fair amount of green algae over the week, but I'm guessing it's because I don't have good circulation. Any feedback would be so appreciated!

Thanks!
Walt

+1 for above comments. You need both a tank volume turnover and interna tank flow. The original pump would give you about 550gph which is probably close to the what the overflow is rated at. I'm guessing the overflow is rated at 600gph, but we need more info, like make and model or tube size.
In the Little Giant Quantum series
MDQX-SC is rated for 675 at 12'HH
5-MD is rated for 747 at 12'HH'

Hy-Drive Pond Master Pro Proline
Pro 2100-XP Hy-Drive(gph) will give 850gph at 15' HH
Pro 4800-XP Hy-Drive(gph) will give 800gph at 15' HH

A Blue Line 100 would probably also do the job.

You should do some online research to determine the overflow rating and match a pump to that. It may take a phone call to get the pump rating at 16' HH

The new Koralia power heads are smaller than the previous version, conusme less electricity and move more water. A couple of those on opposite side of the tank pointing upwards and towards each other should give you plenty of flow.

I also agree that a YT is the only tang you should put in that length tank.

Good luck

 

[Mitchell0605]

That algae is feeding on your very high nitrates.
Do you have live rock or bioballs or a filter sponge? Because if you do I recommend putting all of these in a tub with water covering them and emptying and refilling your whole system. This will be the best way for all of those levels (nitrates) to come down. Mix new SW fill the system, heat and run it and then put your liverock/bioballs/filter sponge back.

 

[walts7598]

What do you mean by "heat it?" Should the sponge, balls, etc be put in salt or regular water? Any advice on the overflow for the pump? Should the system be able to accommodate a larger pump? I wasn't able to find much help with that calculation.

 

[Mitchell0605]

The sponge and bio balls and LR, which ever you have, should be put in a tub with salt water. Then empty everything, sump and tank, and fill it up with new salt water with a SG of 1.024 - 1.026. Then using your tank heater leave it until it has heated up to 25C - 26C (77-79F) then place your bio balls, or sponge, or live rock back into the tank or sump. Where ever they where originally.

 

[cmor1701d]

Can you take and post some pictures. Put the photos on something like photbucket, grab the "direct link" url. Then when you reply, click on the yellow picture icon and past the url for the direct link. Your photo will appear in the reply. You can add up to 8 photo's in a message.

Post some photo's of the tank the sump system, protein skimmer, outlet at the top of the tank and the overflow.

 

[walts7598]

Hope it comes through okay. Wasn't able to upload the pictures directly, but hopefully the link works. Thanks for all the help! I'm coming to the harsh/exciting reality that I need to just sub in a bigger pump on the bottom and a powerhead or two in the tank itself. Any comments are appreciated!

Thanks!

http://s822.photobucket.com/albums/zz147/walts7598/Aquarium/

 

[cmor1701d]

I'll help you out here with the photos. When you hover over a photo in an album you get the change to copy a link as Email and IM; Direct Link; HTML code or IMG code. I copied the Direct Link code then clicked on the Insert Image button above the Quick Reply area. I then pasted the direct link in and hit enter.

I scrolled to the bottom, pressed the 'end' key on my keyboard, then the enter key twice. Typed this, now I'll enter the code for the 2nd photo in that album.

Next photo

and 4th

and final

 

[cmor1701d]

OK, It looks like you have a nice FO set up going. Are you planning to stay that way or are you planning on adding LR and/or going reef eventually?

So yes, you need more flow in the tank. A larger pump will be part of it and few small power heads will give you some additional circualtion in the tank. You don't realy need much with a FO set up.

Is your drain water being partially spilt off to a chiller?
I see a garden hose that appers to be going to the sump. What is that used for?
Are you not using RO or RODI water for mixing PWC and top off water?

 

[walts7598]

Thanks for the photo help! For now I'd like to do FO until I get my feet wet and have a few mishaps that I learn how to deal with before going to LR. The chiller is hooked up in series after the pump, which I'm sure is contributing to the decreased flow along with the large vertical head. Not sure if the chiller is functioning properly, since I'm not seeing that I can dial in a desired temperature, it's just looking like it's reading the temperature of the water. Water quality here is pretty good, so I'm guessing the hose was installed to top off the tank as water evaporated. I'm able to get free filtered saltwater from our local aquarium, so I haven't had to mix too much for my water changes. Despite this, would you recommend picking up a filter for the top-offs?

Do you have a preference on pump makes of the ones you listed earlier? I know the more the better, but I'm wondering if I'll need more from the pump than 5 turnovers per hour if I'm wanting to do LR in the future (so should I buy a larger one now). If I interpret the overflow calculator correctly, I can accommodate ~600 gallons per hour (~6.5 turnovers/hour), but I was hoping to be more conservative at ~500 gallons per hour (~5 turnovers/hour).

Thanks so much! Your comments and this website has really steepened my learning curve!

 

[cmor1701d]

I was in your shoes 6 years ago, so I couldn't agree more about the help you get here.

I don't run a chiller but I thought they ran independantly of the sump return pump. The one I have seen pump water from the sump through the chiller and back to the sump. I guess you could run it inline and and just pump the cooled water back to the tank. That would mean that the intake to the chiller would be inthe last compartment of the sump. I don't think that's the way yours is connected.

There are many quality pumps so I don't have a preference. I have a BlueLine, but it uses the same PanX pump that others use. Little Giant, Gen-X, Danner Mag Drive, Iwaki... The list goes on. Sizing is the most important. You do not want to exceed your overflow rating. You want to get to about 600gph at 16' HH. That's your design goal. If you find a pump that goes over you can use a ball valve and T it to a submerged spraybar for additional internal flow or one or more outlets makig a closed loop system.

For Power Heads I like the new Koralia line. Tunze are great but very expensive as are the new Vortech line. I also really like the MaxiJet line as we all did till the Korlias came out. I still have 2 MJ1200's but with the mod kit to kive them more power and a wider flow. Like so much in this industry there is no BEST, at least not for long. There are usually a few very good models, some that are just OK, and some that you should stay away. RIO pumps used to be in the latter category. I don't know if their quality has improved, but I see they have all new lines out now.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.