High nitrates

[loganj]

A friend of mine has a 72g bowfront and asked me to come by and check it out. After the usual battery of tests, I found the nitrates to be off the chart...200+. I checked them with the Aquarium Pharm and the Seachem tests. Tank is inhabited by a fuzzy dwarf lion, a snowflake moray, a banded coral shrimp, an urchin, and several snails. There is some cyano and hair algae. The entire tank is covered in red and striped mushrooms...there must be 3-400 of them and some are 3" or more in diameter. First question: Why haven't the inverts died due to the nitrate concentration? Second question: Why are these shrooms so prolific? Do they utilize the nitrates as food? They are literally growing like weeds in a garden. I recommended adding a skimmer and doing a series of small water changes to rectify the nitrates. Tank has 2 Emp 400's and a Hagen 402 PH. Lighting is 120w of NO. Planning to add a Seaclone this afternoon. Anybody got ideas? All other tests were in the normal range except for trace phosphates...about .25 I think.
Logan J

 

[Anemoneman]

I think shrooms do thrive in "poor" water conditions. Small water changes won't do squat. He need to do a large water change of 50% or more. That will knock them down by 50% to about 100. Another 50% water change a day or so later will knock it down to about 50. Sounds like he desperately needs a skimmer, especially considering the lion (messy eater). Without a skimmer (a good one) he needs to do regular water changes, I'd say weekly or at least bi-monthly. Small water changes will not dilute the notrates effectively. They need to be large to do any good.

 

[tyler]

how many pounds of lr does this fellow have? what is he using for his makeup water? ro? just making sure, but there is no media in those emps, yes?

 

[Hara]

I have found that the refugium has cleared up the high nitrate/phosphate problem for us...you might try a bunch of macro in the tank

 

[Ender Wiggin]

That type of nitrate isnt uncommon in lionfish or eel tanks. Although mushrroms flourishing is quite odd. Usually even soft, easier to keep coral still is bothered by that level of nirtates!

And yes, more maintenence is needed, not just 30% change every month. Make sure they aren't just feeding live foods either. That will make even more of a mess than those animals already make. I would also advise a hardcore water change, maybe not 50%, only because that may shock the shrooms to much. But defintly gets those nitrates down, the fish will live a lot longer and hopefully the coral will flourish even more.

Tyler

 

[reefrunner69]

Although mushrroms flourishing is quite odd. Usually even soft, easier to keep coral still is bothered by that level of nirtates!

I have subscribed to the theory that nitrates are not that harmful to inverts anymore than fish. It is the impact on the ph that adversly affects corals. If the tank has a stable ph, I do not find it surprising that the shrooms are doing well.

I found the nitrates to be off the chart...200+.

What does the test kit test for exactly? does it test for nitrogen nitrate, or nitrate?

Tank is inhabited by a fuzzy dwarf lion, a snowflake moray, a banded coral shrimp

Anybody wanna start a pool on how long the shrimp hangs around??

We could start a group like the march madness game........

 

[Anemoneman]

maybe not 50%, only because that may shock the shrooms to much.

That hasn't been my experience. I have successfully done 50% water changes with very good results. If you have had bad results from large waer changes, please share the details.

Anybody wanna start a pool on how long the shrimp hangs around??

We need to know how big the Lion is to make a guess.

 

[michealprater]

IF you make sure your new water is up to temp, same PH and salinity their should not be a problem with a 50% w/c. However if any of the three are off it could have adverse effects. Only problem with that is where are you going to put 36 gallons of water to get those three things right.

 

[Anemoneman]

Trash can!

 

[d9hp]

Get one at wal-mart for $8.00 I think they hold 20 gallons or something, $16.00 and you got a lot of room

 

[loganj]

Emperors are running cartridges and wheels. Since I am going to be maintaining the tanks from now on, this will change. Since the tank has a CC substrate, I don't think there will be much in the way of nitrate control other than water changes and maybe some Nitra-zorb or a Purigen pack. I added a Seaclone today. It was the only thing that would fit on the tank. I'm was thinking on the way home that this guy was going to have to get a container (trash can) to mix up water in. His idea of a water change has been 5 gal monthly. He has also been feeding the lion and the moray live guppies. I told him that had to stop if he wanted them to live much longer. I'll try to get some pics of the tank when I go back over there...you just won't believe the shrooms. Aside from the hair algae, it's really a beautiful tank.
The fuzzy dwarf is about 4" long. The coral shrimp is HUGE...he probably measures 4-4.5" across his claws. Might try a lawnmower or sailfin blenny in there to combat the hair algae. I really don't want to make any changes that will adversely affect the shrooms though.
Logan J

 

[reefrunner69]

The coral shrimp is HUGE...he probably measures 4-4.5" across his claws.

My snowflake moray eats shrimp that are 6" in length, probably 5-6 times the body mass of the CBS you describe, eventually it will be lights out for the shrimp.

Might try a lawnmower or sailfin blenny in there to combat the hair algae.

I have never known a sailfin or a lawnmower blenny to eat hair algae. I would suggest a another form of algae control.

 

[loganj]

Hmm...I added a sailfin to the prop tanks and he decimated the hair algae in about 2 weeks. It was growing everywhere...big green tufts and a carpet on the racks. Now I'm worried about the blenny going hungry. I actually saw him munching on it at night (red light trick) so I know he was responsible. As to the shrimp, I'll tell the guy to say his goodbyes to it
Logan J

 

[Ender Wiggin]

Walmart? i dont shop there, i happen to like my job. if everyone starts buying whatever they need there, that way cool cheap walmart is doing to put lots of stores out of business. i'd rather pay more and recieve good advice, not further all the hs dropouts from around here in their careers at wally world.

((I posted this in the wrong thread, i guess. I appoligize for that. I also appoligize about the comment about hs dropouts. I guess that is just my nearest WalMart, not all of them. And I also agree that there's a lot of other stores that hire unqualified personel, so that was a poor argument. I guess I have had some bad experiences with walmart and am bitter. Ill try to be a little more leniant ))

 

[reefrunner69]

I think there is a thread around here somewhere (probably in the archives) about buying from walmart. Where I agree with the sentiment and urge everyone to support their LFS, if we don't they won't be there. (even a marginal LFS is better than no LFS) I also urge you not to make comments about the intellegence level of people working for Walmart. No matter your opinion of them, they are doing an honest days work for honest days pay to support their families. My wife works for Walmart, she is hardly a HS dropout and is hardly unintellegent. Believe it or not, people put their health and lives in her hands every day, she is the one that fills their perscriptions. Also the emloyees that work in the Pet Dept may be ignorant of fishkeeping husbandry but that does not make them uninteligent, simply uninformed.

 

[loganj]

OK, you got me on that one. It took a few minutes to make the connection. Perhaps information will be forthcoming as to where I should buy my garbage can? I wouldn't want to be advised by someone who is not current on garbage cans either. I mean...it's a pretty high tech product and I wouldn't want to miss out on the latest technology.
I was also not aware that Wal Marts hiring requirements were any different than say...Home Depot, Petsmart, Lowes, ect.... Perhaps there is some reliable info available that will confirm that they have a higher percentage of "hs dropouts" than other large chain stores?
Back to the subject, I'll plan on a large water change for both tanks as soon as I can get the garbage can problem resolved . I guess getting the skimmer running on the 135 will help some...parts for the pump came in today.
Logan J