High Nitrates and PO4

[ReefRaff]

I have been battling with my nitrates for awhile now. and although I had 4 fish and several snails die (within the last two months) I suspected another potential problem.

When I set this tank up back in the summer I ordered 50 Lbs Of LR and set it right on the glass, then poured the 127LBS of southdown in and around the rock base. I figured i would do this so the rock didn't tumble while it settled through the sand over time.

So, I would say approx 30 LBS is below the sand line. I have been told that this would creat Dead spots.

I am wondering if this would or could be the problem with high nitrates. what do ya'll think? If so would it be a bad thing for me to start pulling Rock up out of the sand.

readings are as follows
01/01/04

PH--- 7.9
NO2-- 0
NO3-- 25
NH3-- 0.1
PO4-- 0.5 meg/L
Alk--- 2.0 meq/L
cal--- 350 ppm
sg--- 1.024 at 80 deg

the only inhabbitants are a colony of Yellow polyps
GSP's
small colony of Brown Xenia
huge black Sea Urchin
and two huge crabs

So what should I do? should I pull the rock up? Or just let it be?

Thanks!
:?

 

[astride13]

A higher ph will normally help the battle against phosphates and inverts prefer it. 8.4 seems to work for me.

As for the nitrates,
What filtration do you have?
What size tank is it?
How deep is your sand bed?

 

[ReefRaff]

oh ya forgot to mention that iv'e had my lights out for a week to battle cyno. :? sorry.

 

[astride13]

Turning off the lights to rid of cyano is really just a bandaid. The problem is the fuel. Once you turn the lights back on, the fuel will still be present.

 

[HoopsGuru]

PH is low, this could be from having not enough circulation in the tank which could also explain part of the cyano problem.

It's tough to figure out what might be causing your phosphate and nitrate troubles without seeing your tank and how you maintain it. What do you use for source water? Using anything other than RO/DI can introduce both of these into your tank. How often you do water changes and other maintenance could also be a factor along with overfeeding, etc.

FWIW, I don't agree with the fact that having some of the LR buried would cause dead spots. With how a sandbed functions, the animals should still be moving in and around all of the liverock through the bed and where rock is, sand isn't.

 

[ReefRaff]

I have two maxijet 1200 one at each end, a skimer aqua-c, and a HOB with chempure, and phos-zorb in it. I am doing a 30-40 % water change today, with RO/DI which I just replaced all the cartridges in two days ago. the others were six months old.

I haven't buffered anything yet (i.e alk/cal/ph) should I buffer the PH a little with some baking soda?

 

[HoopsGuru]

Pardon my question, I feel I should know already but I don't...what size is the tank?

Going a different route for a moment, I think your alkalinity is a little towards the bottom of the threshold. Where it is currently at may be allowing some of the natural acids in the tank to depress the PH a bit. Using a product like Seachem's reef builder should help it get up into the 3-5 meq/l range and raise the PH. I would then maintain by possibly dripping kalk now and then (according to your tests) which would also help precipitate out some of the phosphates.

As for your actual phosphate and nitrate problems, it may be due to not having enough activity in your sandbed resulting in a buildup of detritus and the resulting increase in phosphate and nitrate going back into the tank. Did you seed the bed with anything other than liverock?

 

[ReefRaff]

what size is the tank?

LOL sorry. it is a 50 Gallon tank 18x18x36

Did you seed the bed with anything other than liverock?

Just a cup of LS from one source, and one from another

I have a few bristle worms, but not many

I also considered getting a small bag of LS to replace some that got sucked out over time from sucking cyno.

 

[reefrunner69]

I have been told that this would creat Dead spots.

It does just the opposite, it prevents dead spots and is considered to be the "proper" way to do it.

oh ya forgot to mention that iv'e had my lights out for a week to battle cyno

That would help explain the depressed ph.

should I buffer the PH a little with some baking soda?

No, baking soda raises the ph to high to quickly, the product hoops suggested is good, or 6 parts Arm & Hammer Baking Soda and 1 part Arm & Hammer Washing soda. Mix well and add one table spoon of the mix to RO, RO/DI or Distilled water per 25 gal of tank water to raise DKH 1.0.

Does your DSB create bubbles? It really sounds like a sandbed problem to me, the cyano and the nitrates and the PO4. I would hesitate to suggest removing it at this point, but without sandbed bashing...it might be time to renew/rejuvenate it.

 

[ReefRaff]

Does your DSB create bubbles?

Not for a couple months now

but without sandbed bashing...it might be time to renew/rejuvenate it.

You mean by seeding it with some more live sand right?

 

[reefrunner69]

Actually, I meant by removing it, cleaning and oxygenating the sand to remove any sulfide build up and starting it over. I think you never had enough life in the bed to actually get it going right, now it may be too late to simply add some critters, if the sulfide layer has formed close to the surface...they will not survive.

 

[ReefRaff]

wow. thats gonna take some time. I'll have to get a ten gallon that didn't have copper in it. for my softies and crabs and stuff. rock ect. damn.

 

[reefrunner69]

Before you go to all that trouble wait for other opinions.

 

[HoopsGuru]

I wish I had another opinion on how, but I can only concur that I agree it sounds like a sandbed problem from not being setup correctly. This is hardly criticism, sandbeds and how to set them up has gotten pretty vague....with the "throw sand in it and that's it" having been accepted at one point. I think we are starting to find out the proper requirements of this method...but it does not discourage me from using it.

I would like to say that a sandbed can be revitalized, but any suggestion would only be guess as to how, especially when it is not known to what extent hs pockets could exist. At this point, I am just trying to keep the thread active.

 

[ReefRaff]

Kevin, I know I asked you before, but I forgot. Again. what was that link you used to input cal levels and get your target alk #'s and visa versa? Thanks.

 

[ReefRaff]

NM I found it.

 

[ReefRaff]

Well I found out i was mistaken about the bubbles, cause I saw some lastnight and I think it's bubbles that i can see againts the glass below the sand line.

Is there a good online source that would sell me some LS (not baged) and some worms? also maybe some snails?

I was thinking maybe Darin? is it? at captivreefs.com?

 

[reefrunner69]

Well I found out i was mistaken about the bubbles, cause I saw some lastnight and I think it's bubbles that i can see againts the glass below the sand line

How far down are they coming from? Are there worm tracks in the bed and how far down do they f=go? If the sulfide layer is too close to the surface, it will still denitrify some, but you need to be sure how far down your critters are living.

As for the pods and such.... www.ipsf.com and www.inlandaquatics.com both sell detrivore packages. I think captivereefs.com only does dry goods.

 

[ReefRaff]

How far down are they coming from? Are there worm tracks in the bed and how far down do they f=go?

All the bubbles and algeas, are within the top 2", and the worm tracks beyond that, past the black trim.


Thanks for the links


oh btw, the algeas are red,green, and yellowish brown.

 

[cj10488]

Is there a good online source that would sell me some LS (not baged) and some worms? also maybe some snails?

liverocks.com They have Awesome LS and Its only 1.00 per pound I believe.. I have soo many worms and pods ect for the 15lbs That I got from them..

HTH<
James