How to setup a QT tank ?

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Maurice2

Aquarium Advice Regular
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
50
Location
Switzerland
Whilst my inverts are settling in, I've have been given a 50L tank and an Eheim 440L/H canister filter, to be filled with ceramic balls and that fluffy cloth filter material (sorry, don't know the word in English).

1. Could I use this as a QT tank (i.e Is it big enough?)
2. How many juvenile fish could I/should I put in it at once?
3. Given that they'll be no LR, how do I get rid of ammoniac/nitrates/nitrites? Charcoal?
4. Should I treat with copper preventively? If so, at what dosage? I'm hearing between 1.5 and 3.0ppm, which is 100% difference, is there a norm?

I'm planning on a non-aggresive collection, something like Royal Angel/Banggai Cardinal/Royal Dottyback/Yellowtail-blue damsel/decorated goby/fire goby/pallette surgeon/6-line wrasse. Nothing final there, just a general idea...
 
The word is wet/dry sump.
1. Yes you can use it as a QT
2. One at a time is what I would recommend.
3. Best way to "start" a QT is to place a piece of filter media in your main in advance. When you are ready to add a fish to the QT just move the filter media over and it will seed your tank.
4. No What until you know what you are treating before adding anything. Copper is not a cure-all nor is the the best treatment for most parasites..
 
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I have a wet-dry filter in my sump under my main. The filter I was given is an Eheim 2213 http://www.eheim.com/classic.htm which looks like this:
eheim2213.jpg

As you can see, it's typically filled with little ceramic balls on top of which you put filter tissue and optionally a bag of carbon.

My understanding is that this is (and only is) a mechanical filter, as opposed to the biological filter in my sump and LR.

The part I wasn't sure about is: Given that a QT has no LR, would the nitrifying bacteria I need thrive in this (more or less anaerobic) canister?
 
The cannister filter cannot be used as a QT. A 50L tank can be used as QT. The cannister filter is where the biological filtration will take place (all the little ceramic balls). It takes time for that to happen though. You could place the filter material in the main tank for a week to allow it to get coated. You could also run your QT with the filter and do a fishless cycle there too. The last option is to set up the QT with the cannister filter and add 1 fish. Be prepared to do 20% water changes twice a day for up to a week if go that route. You will be using the fish to cycle the tank and it can foul the tank quickly.

You should only add 1 fish/month to the main so the same is true of the QT. As you transfer a fish to the main tank you add another one (or two) to the QT. Keep each specimen in QT for about 6 weeks to make sure there aren't any parasites or other problems with the fish. Also be sure to have some hiding places but no other substrate in the QT. PVC pieces are good for this.

HTH.
 
cmor1701d said:
The cannister filter cannot be used as a QT.
I like your sense of humour, that conjured up an amusing image of a large clownfish looking at me angrily from inside the canister filter :lol:

So, it would appear that bacteria will develop in a canister filter, good.

:idea: To get the filter primed, would this not be the most efficient :
1. Fill the canister with clean filter materials
2. Put it next to my main sump and let it filter water from my main tank for a week or two (to populate it with bacteria).
3. Fill my QT with main water (that would be about 10% of the main)
4. Transfer the canister filter back to filtering the QT water
5. Top up the main with seawater made from RO

If so, how long should step 2 last?
 
Your plan will work. Time for new filter media to build up bacteria is 2 weeks on a tank that is already cycled and up to 2 months with an nh3 source on a tank that isn’t cycled.

Using a cup or two of filter media from your main filter would allow you to QT instantly assuming you have a very light fish load in your qt tank and keep up with 20% PWC every other day.

Since it’s only a 50L (13 gal) tank I’d limit fish to a maximum of 4” total length and keep in QT for 6+ weeks before adding to main assuming it is healthy.

For fish larger then 4” I would get a larger tank.
 
That would work. As you said in #2, a week or two is perfect. Number 3 is not necessary. You could just as easily use freshly made (but aerated for 24 hours) SW in the QT. Adjust it to the same temp and SG as the main tank.

What is in the main tank now? Do you have some livestock that are creating waste product to feed the nitrogen cycle? Has the main tank finished cycling yet?

BTW, that fluffy material will collect waste and need to be cleaned every few days to a week. Cannister filters are very good at feeding the bacteria that break the ammonia down to nitrite and the nitrite down to nitrate. They do not continue the cycle of breaking down nitrate to nitrogen. You will probably need to keep the filter clean and do regular (weekly) PWC's of around 20% if you want to maintain low nitrate levels.
 
What a splendid forum this is.

My main is 480L. I installed it early January, cycled it for a month and then added too many fish, too quickly. By early March I had lost all 11 fish to ich, but learnt a lot. I did a 100% water change, added another 20Kg of live rock and cleaned carefully taking care not to disturb my sump filter.

ATM it has 15 star snails, 2 hermits, a small starfish, a small fire-shrimp and 3 baby pacific cleaner shrimps. I have a little diatom that the snails and hermits are working on, otherwise all looks better now.
Needless to say, I'm not planning on adding anything else until the 8 week ich-quarantine is over, thus my careful planning for a QT tank.

Now, suppose if I plan on having a dozen fish in the end, and I quarantine them one at a time for 6 weeks. The LFS won't necessarily have the 'next' fish for the QT at the moment I move one out of the QT, so I'm looking at 18+ months before my tank is full.

I've learnt the lesson of impatience, but that is a rather long time. Indeed the fish I'll be buying will be 3-4"; apparently 50L is too small if I want to quarantine, say, 3 fish at a time. Would 120L sound reasonable?

My wife already says the dining room looks like a chinese restaurant with the main tank, if I install another one anywhere as big in the basement it's going to be a hard sell :oops:
 
I understand spouse issues :lol: My qt tank is in my computer room which is no where near the main :D A 120L (30 gal) tank would be ok for two to three small 3”-4” fish at a time assuming you had adequate bio-filtration on the qt tank and still did PWC as needed to keep the levels in check.

If paid for the lfs will not hold the fish for a couple of weeks? Personally even when I do buy fish I put it on hold for at least a week to observe for sickness, eating habits and to setup the QT before taking home.
 
tecwzrd said:
If paid for the lfs will not hold the fish for a couple of weeks? Personally even when I do buy fish I put it on hold for at least a week to observe for sickness, eating habits and to setup the QT before taking home.
I've already asked him the question. His reasoning goes thus:
1. If you pay for it in advance then it's yours. If it dies in my custody, we have a problem.
2. If you don't pay in advance, I'll hold it for you but after a month the fish will be 3 times the price, as I have to assume the risk.
3. You might as well take it home and assume the risk yourself.

Thus my plan for a QT tank. After what the first round cost me, a 120L tank will be a drop in the ocean, if you'll forgive the pun.

Me too, the QT tank is slated out of the way in the basement but it's going to have to be in the laundry room, next to a basin where my RO filter can discharge. The next problem will be, having made 120L of RO for a water change, how am I going to get it back up to the ground floor to do my water change?

Somewhat a hobby for masochists, is it not :roll:

Thanks again for all the good advice, rest assured it'll be followed :wink:
 
That’s not a very nice lfs owner with that kind of attitude :( I’ve dealt with the same lfs owner for 15 years and have spent a small fortune on fish and he is very accommodating.

Maurice2 said:
Somewhat a hobby for masochists, is it not :roll:
Too true :lol: Guess you will getting a work out by taking up 20L at a time :D I’d recommend a strong pump but that would probably run you $2,000 8O
 
tecwzrd said:
I’d recommend a strong pump but that would probably run you $2,000 8O
Actually, I have a pretty mean pump I bought for moving water around the garden, I think its got about a 6m head and it only cost me $200. The problem is that it thrashes the water practically to foam, so I'd have to pump the RO up into a second barrel and let it settle before putting it in the tank. Plus I was warned that I better rinse the pump carefully or else it'd get wrecked by the salt.

Seawater really isn't a convenient thing to work with, is it?
 
I’d use that pump and a new clean hose even if it does thrash the water a bit. Salt at the sg we keep our tanks at shouldn’t have any long term affects on the pump. Just general maintenance on the pump every couple of months should keep it going for a long time.

Sure beats having to manually move all that water.
 
You probably should run some FW through the pump when you're done pumping the SW up to the tank level.

Can you find another LFS or is there the possibility of mail order for your livestock?
You can certainly add 2 fish at a time once the tank has been running for a few months. You need to get the bacteria levels up and that takes time.

It sounds like you are on your way to a successful aquarium.

BTW, the best piece of advice I received here was "nothing good happens fast in a marine aquarium".
 
cmor1701d said:
Can you find another LFS or is there the possibility of mail order for your livestock?
Regrettably, no and no. There are 2 LFS within driving distance:
A: the one I use, who custom-built my tank, provided a fair bit of advice and is pleasant to deal with, even if selling fish is his primary aim
B: another in nearby France which sold me the boxfish that brought cryptocaryon and killed my entire tank. To add to their sins, they persuaded my to buy two clowns rather than the single one I wanted, their fight to the death was as astonishing as unpleasant.
C: Nobody in the USA will ship outside the USA, nobody outside the USA will ship to private individuals unless you buy 100 fish, pre-paid.

Thus it's Hobson's choice, as I'm unlikely to go back to B eh?

cmor1701d said:
It sounds like you are on your way to a successful aquarium.
Thank you. Let's check back in 2007...

cmor1701d said:
BTW, the best piece of advice I received here was "nothing good happens fast in a marine aquarium".
Very much so, as I learnt at un-necessary cost and quite some grief.

@Beginners out there: Any advice you get from someone who has a vested interest in selling something to you is biased. I'll quote one example:

Me: That's a cute looking fish, what is it?
LFS: A psychedelic mandarin Sir, beautiful fish eh? (Sounds like that Monty Python parrot sketch)
Me: But how will it fare in a tank that's only 6 weeks old?
LFS: Oh, I have clients who keep mandarins all the time, easily (he omits to mention that their tanks are 8 years old)
Me: But will he eat XXX?
LFS: Oh, mandarins will eat anything that passes their way. Look: *throws YYY in the tank* see, they eat YYY!
Me: OK, I'll take one
- a month passes -
Me: That mandarin died, water parameters were perfect and i fed them XXX/YYY/ZZZ. How did it happen?
LFS: That's regrettable Sir, my other clients have no problems with them

You learn, the hard way, that the LFS knowingly omits to mention that if you don't have a large supply of pods (i.e. a refugium), a mandarin is more or less guaranteed to die from starvation, because the only thing they'll survive on is pods, no matter how tempting your flakes/lobster eggs/whatever might be.

The critical piece is that all the XXX/YYY/ZZZ have zero nutritional value to mandarins, even if they scoff them, which is why your new-mandarin-in-a-new-tank will certainly die.

Oh, and just in case, this is not a rant, I'm quoting from memory, hoping that it might provide useful advice :p
 
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