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Old 08-28-2012, 01:16 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Elchakas
You got a point there... what would b a good ro/di unit i could buy thats not exensive?.. i saw some on amazon for like $150.. any experiance on those?... and well how does a ro/di unit work?.. were do u hook.it up.too?
Try Bulk Reef Supply...I ordered one last week through a group buy for about $120
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:18 AM   #12
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yeah ived been looking into them... how do u do a group buy? sorry but im kinda new at all these things...
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:25 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Elchakas
yeah ived been looking into them... how do u do a group buy? sorry but im kinda new at all these things...
People on here organize them all the time...do a search. you just make an account with BRS and then message the organizer (your name n email) and you're in to order off the site and it ships right to your door! This was my first group buy, I got a RO/DI (75gpd) 4stage and a refractometer and some base rock for $180.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:35 AM   #14
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mm sounds like a good deal. will look into it.. =) thanks
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:04 PM   #15
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There's a Rodi unit on eBay and purewaterclub.com that'd $65 and works fine. I've been using it and and it makes perfect water.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:38 PM   #16
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These solutions all sound good but you are assuming that the water from the machine is the problem. What if it isn't?

A successful saltwater aquarium is based on having equal amounts of producers and consumers within the system. Fish produce waste in the form of ammonia which is consumed by nitrifying bacterias, which converts it(produces) to nitrites which then are consumed by another nitrifying bacteria which .... etc.

It would not be off course to assume that the reason you are having a nitrate problem is because you don't have Nitrate consumers in your tank/system. Again, fish waste produces Ammonia that is converted to Nitrite which is converted to Nitrate. The nitrate is converted back to usable chemicals by things like plants (of which algae is one). There are ways of reducing your Nitrates naturally by using a refugium filter incorporated into your sump or chemically by adding some of the over the counter products or pads such as a Polyfilter. R/O water is not a necessity unless you don't have other choices. In a fish only tank, algae is not the end of the world and is quite helpful for supplementing the diet of your tang. From the colors of your algae, I'd say the first thing to check is your lighting system as red and slime algaes are usually produced in lower level lighting. Following this up would be to check your Phosphate level as this is a known slime algae necessity.

Back in the dark ages (when I started keeping marines) I used to let the algae grow wild on the rear of my tanks. People used to say how ugly it was but how my fish looked tremendous. Brightly colored, full bellied, and long lasting. (I had clowns for 13 years and kept a Maculosusx Asfur hybrid for 15 years until I lost him from a mechanical breakdown one winter. I routinely took my water to be tested and found it to be of better quality then the natural ocean water that the store was using. My system was BALANCED and the fish proved it. That was the trade off for the ugly algae.
Fast forward to today's hobby and you don't need to have the algae in the tank anymore but can have algaes (macro algaes) incorporated into your system just by having your water flowing through another tank. (What's now called a refugium) The whole system does not need to be expensive and can be put together using spare parts in a lot of cases. It just depends on how elaborate you want to be.
So first, I would check out the nitrate level of the water you are buying. Second, check out your lighting followed by a Phosphate test. Once you have these answers, we can move forward.
Feel free to PM me if you'd like a plan for a homemade refugium system or have other questions
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Sager
These solutions all sound good but you are assuming that the water from the machine is the problem. What if it isn't?

A successful saltwater aquarium is based on having equal amounts of producers and consumers within the system. Fish produce waste in the form of ammonia which is consumed by nitrifying bacterias, which converts it(produces) to nitrites which then are consumed by another nitrifying bacteria which .... etc.

It would not be off course to assume that the reason you are having a nitrate problem is because you don't have Nitrate consumers in your tank/system. Again, fish waste produces Ammonia that is converted to Nitrite which is converted to Nitrate. The nitrate is converted back to usable chemicals by things like plants (of which algae is one). There are ways of reducing your Nitrates naturally by using a refugium filter incorporated into your sump or chemically by adding some of the over the counter products or pads such as a Polyfilter. R/O water is not a necessity unless you don't have other choices. In a fish only tank, algae is not the end of the world and is quite helpful for supplementing the diet of your tang. From the colors of your algae, I'd say the first thing to check is your lighting system as red and slime algaes are usually produced in lower level lighting. Following this up would be to check your Phosphate level as this is a known slime algae necessity.

Back in the dark ages (when I started keeping marines) I used to let the algae grow wild on the rear of my tanks. People used to say how ugly it was but how my fish looked tremendous. Brightly colored, full bellied, and long lasting. (I had clowns for 13 years and kept a Maculosusx Asfur hybrid for 15 years until I lost him from a mechanical breakdown one winter. I routinely took my water to be tested and found it to be of better quality then the natural ocean water that the store was using. My system was BALANCED and the fish proved it. That was the trade off for the ugly algae.
Fast forward to today's hobby and you don't need to have the algae in the tank anymore but can have algaes (macro algaes) incorporated into your system just by having your water flowing through another tank. (What's now called a refugium) The whole system does not need to be expensive and can be put together using spare parts in a lot of cases. It just depends on how elaborate you want to be.
So first, I would check out the nitrate level of the water you are buying. Second, check out your lighting followed by a Phosphate test. Once you have these answers, we can move forward.
Feel free to PM me if you'd like a plan for a homemade refugium system or have other questions
I suggested source water because op said was doin water changes and nitrate wont go down normally even at 10% waterchange nitrates would drop some but i do agree a fuge will help tremendously im goin on 3 years using fuge with chaeto not a stitch of algae in dt
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:28 PM   #18
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I suggested source water because op said was doin water changes and nitrate wont go down normally even at 10% waterchange nitrates would drop some but i do agree a fuge will help tremendously im goin on 3 years using fuge with chaeto not a stitch of algae in dt
I don't disagree that this should be checked and could very well be the source of the problem. HOWEVER...
I was keeping marines before the live rock craze even started and back in the late 1970s, created and kept a marine tank using the Lee Chin Eng Natural method which used live rock but didn't include a filter of any kind and just used an airstone for water movement. It was only possible to do this method when you had a balanced aquarium.
To expand on your theory that a 10% water change would show a decrease in Nitrates, the most it would show would be 10% so if you had a reading of 40 PPM and reduced it by 10%, you'd have a reading of 36 ppm assuming that you were using a perfectly calibrated digital test kit. Since most people use a color kit, the color difference is negligable between the 2 and people are often reading these tests in the wrong light and see incorrect colors. ( I know this from experience ) Plus, you are assuming that the reading was taken within a minute or 2 of the water change because the living rock is constantly producing ammonia that's being converted which is creating nitrates rather quickly. Not trying to be hardheaded about this but this is what happens with live rock. It is rarely spoken about as far as I've seen.

All in all, if you are right and the source water is the issue, an easy way to deal with it is to drip it into the system using the refugium filter/ algae scrubber/ plant tank/polyfilter, etc. Any of these things can be built for under the $150.00 for the R/O unit. (There are so many choices today, you lucky hobbyists )

I was just trying to point out another possibility. Let's see what the test says
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:36 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Andy Sager

I don't disagree that this should be checked and could very well be the source of the problem. HOWEVER...
I was keeping marines before the live rock craze even started and back in the late 1970s, created and kept a marine tank using the Lee Chin Eng Natural method which used live rock but didn't include a filter of any kind and just used an airstone for water movement. It was only possible to do this method when you had a balanced aquarium.
To expand on your theory that a 10% water change would show a decrease in Nitrates, the most it would show would be 10% so if you had a reading of 40 PPM and reduced it by 10%, you'd have a reading of 36 ppm assuming that you were using a perfectly calibrated digital test kit. Since most people use a color kit, the color difference is negligable between the 2 and people are often reading these tests in the wrong light and see incorrect colors. ( I know this from experience ) Plus, you are assuming that the reading was taken within a minute or 2 of the water change because the living rock is constantly producing ammonia that's being converted which is creating nitrates rather quickly. Not trying to be hardheaded about this but this is what happens with live rock. It is rarely spoken about as far as I've seen.

All in all, if you are right and the source water is the issue, an easy way to deal with it is to drip it into the system using the refugium filter/ algae scrubber/ plant tank/polyfilter, etc. Any of these things can be built for under the $150.00 for the R/O unit. (There are so many choices today, you lucky hobbyists )

I was just trying to point out another possibility. Let's see what the test says
You were in the hobbie before we had all this filtration and reactors and such thats very cool imo reefing has gotten easier in the last decade im sure you put your work in and i cant match your experience i by no means was underminding you at all hope thats not what you think
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:46 PM   #20
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You were in the hobbie before we had all this filtration and reactors and such thats very cool imo reefing has gotten easier in the last decade im sure you put your work in and i cant match your experience i by no means was underminding you at all hope thats not what you think
LOL Not in the least
I just see more people forgetting about the "why" things work to concentrate on easy fixes and shortcuts. It's when you know WHY things happen that you can better fix them or prevent them from happening in the first place (IMO).

Yes, reefing has come a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOng way from when I got started and I'm almost envious of where it's at now. ( It's almost no challenge anymore. LOL) However, some of the fun in the hobby back then was in the trying to figure it all out You guys and gals today are just benefiting from our hard work back then But that's okay by me. This is a hobby to be enjoyed, not frustrated by. Let's hope together we can help the OP with his situation.
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