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Old 02-26-2008, 08:39 PM   #1
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Unhappy Inverts are great! fish? not so good

I have a 14 gallon Biocube that has been cycled and looking great. I started with just corals and reef crabs and did very well. I added a purple dottyback, a clown and an arrow crab. They did well for 2 weeks and I added a hippo tang and a mandrin dragonet. Everything went south from there. I have my water checked at my lfs every week and he says everything is great. "Better than my water" he says. I thought I might have had ich on the hippo, and it died. My lfs said try a cleaner wrasse and a cleaner shrimp. The wrasse died in a day (he & I both believe it was a poor specimen to start). Then I see the arrow on the dragonet one night, but the fish seemed as though it was not bothered. Next morning the crab has him in a cave "cleaning up." I begin suspecting the arrow and found several forums that said they were very territorial and not really good in a small tank. I traded him for brittle and sand sifter starfish. two days later the dootyback has white spots and dies and four days after that the clown fish follows suit. All this time, I am having my water tested at my lfs and he says it is very good. Short story is I got no fish!
Sorry about the book, but I figure the more details the better chance somebody will know the culprit.
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:43 PM   #2
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the culprit is a 14 gallon biocube with fish and inverts that have no busy in there in the first place, too many specimens, and way to fast. Do some research - Im not sure this is real, LFS have bad reputations but i dont think any of them would advise this bad of information.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:05 PM   #3
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Sorry, It's Real Why Would I Waste My Time Otherwise. I Enjoy My Fw Tank And Liked The Thought Of The More Diverse Sw Stuff. I Asked My Lfs Everytime I Added. Simply Put, I Thought That Would Be A Good Source For Info. Have Seen More Fish In Similar Tanks
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:44 PM   #4
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I can tell you for sure that the mandrin dragonet won't do well in a 14 gallon just becuase most of its food source is from pods and stuff on the live rock. It just isn't a big enough tank for him to forage for food. Some of your other problems maybe be from ammonia spikes when you fish died. The tank has such a small volume of water that a fish dieing can throw a wrench in your water parameters for a couple days. just a guess though. Blue hippo tangs are notorious for contracting ich. They have weak immune systems on top of the fact that 14 is WAY to small for him. Adult length for one of those can be up to a foot. You may have problems with the sand sifting star as well. They need a fairly large sand bed to keep enough food. It may starve to death in your tank. The white spots on the dottyback and clowns could have been ich from when you had the tang. I'm pretty sure (you can find article online for more info) that during the life cycle of ich that it falls down and incubates in your sand bed and then "hatches" in much greater numbers later and looks for new hosts.

Make sure you are acclimating your fish slowly to help reduce stress on them when putting them in the tank and always avoid putting any water from the LFS in your tank to help avoid transferring undesirables or medications that might be in the water. Also make sure you dont' add fish to fast because it can overload your tank. The bacteria needs time to catch up to the new bioload. Most people recommend setting up a quarantine tank were you can keep new fish for a week or two to make sure they don't have anything before you put it in your main tank. Until you know for sure what killed your fish and make sure its gone i would be cautious about putting anything else in there.

Sounds to me like you got some very very bad advice from your local fish store. In the future you can find general info on the fish at liveaquaria.com or i usually post questions about compatibility and tank size requirements on the forums and people always help me out. In general i wouldn't put more then about 3 fish in a 14 gallon just because of the size of the tank.

liveaquaria has a whole section devoted to nano fish that would be good for your tank
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/s...fm?pCatId=2124

Hope that helps. I would always research fish and inverts carefully before putting them in your tank to avoid complications down the road and never listen to your LFS again for sure.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:50 PM   #5
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Welcome to AquariumAdvice.com!!!
Wow...are am afraid you made a couple of VERY poor choices for your tank. The hippo and dragonet have no place in a 14gal tank. If your LFS suggested you to you it is time to find a new LFS. Your invert list looks good (except for the arrow crab). Remember...you have lots of good choices for a tank of your size. The previous choices...not so good.
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:00 AM   #6
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A fourteen gallon biocube is going to keep you limited on fish and by limited i dont mean the amount of fish either. it also includes fish that need swimming space and a 14 gallon biocube wont give them that space. Your corals and inverts are doing fine because size doesnt bother them as much. the purple dottyback and the clown were a smart choice to add because they dont need a lot of space for swimming and i would only say you can add one more fish, for example another clownfish.

They did well for 2 weeks and I added a hippo tang and a mandrin dragonet. Everything went south from there.
Well there are a lot of problems here. You just recently added a clownfish and dottyback. everytime you add a new specimen to the tank the aerobic and anaerobic organisms need time to react to the change in the bioload and other reactions. This is extremely important and is why i stress stress stressssss patience! patience is key in this hobby. You shouldnt add another fish to your tank for a month/ month and a half after adding a fish.
Mandarin Dragonet: youre obviously new to this and these are not easy fish to keep. i would stay away from them they need pods to eat which naturally grow in your tank and since your tank is farely new i would not get one. Also a 14 gallon tank isnt going to be able to supply enough pods for the fella and it would be like a starvation camp to him.
Hippo Tang: Absolutely Absolutely Absolutely do not put any kind of tang in anything smaller than a 75 gallon tank. These fish need an extrmely large swimming area and they do not survive well in small tanks. it will outgrow the tank quickly and its just not right. Its like cruelty to them, but obviously you learn from your mistakes. Please stay away from Tangs, Angels and other large fish..

My lfs said try a cleaner wrasse and a cleaner shrimp.
Wrasses are very active fish and they too also need to be in large tanks. stay away from them as well. i doubt it was a poor specimen but i wasnt there so im not going to argue you. Without the proper amount of water a fishes health can deteriorate quickly. The cleaner shrimp on the other hand will be fine which is a plus.

And heres the verdict...
the culprit is your LFS and you.. research is key, im sorry i said it but its true. you need to research more, there are so many little things that could go wrong with putting certain specimen with others. Dont get discouraged... simply get rid of the arrow crab they can get aggressive and try starting with one clownfish and let him live for a month by himself.. then add another clown and see how that goes. the reason the dottyback got ich was because of the living space... he fealt threatened and didnt have his own territory which stresses fish out
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:56 PM   #7
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Good advice from all above. I just want to add that as of now YOUR TANK HAS ICH.

If I read your post correctly at this point you have no fish in your tank, just inverts and corals. THAT'S GOOD!

Do not add any fish to your tank for at least 6 weeks. That will insure that the Ich parasite is dead and gone from your tank.

Set up a QT tank to house any fish you do buy for a period of 30 days to make sure they do not have Ich or other ailments. Then add the fish to the tank.

Add only one fish at a time and then wait a month before adding another one.
Limit yourself to two (maybe 3) size appropraite fish.
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amkelly View Post
Hippo Tang: Absolutely Absolutely Absolutely do not put any kind of tang in anything smaller than a 75 gallon tank. These fish need an extrmely large swimming area and they do not survive well in small tanks. it will outgrow the tank quickly and its just not right. Its like cruelty to them, but obviously you learn from your mistakes. Please stay away from Tangs, Angels and other large fish..




I agree. The culprit is the LFS
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