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Old 04-10-2003, 11:38 PM   #1
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Kalkwasser or Oceansblend????

I have been reading allot about the Oceansblend products to maintain proper levels and Kalkwasser, but don't know which one to go with. Thanks for any replies.
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Old 04-11-2003, 07:09 AM   #2
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I use kalk, although I am not familiar with Ocean's Blend, I have tried various products over the years and I always come back to kalk.
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Old 04-11-2003, 03:21 PM   #3
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I use Ocean's Blend and have not seen any adverse effects. My parameters do not sway. I have been using it for 3 months now.. I was turned onto it by my LFS because it contains all additives that are pertinant, in one easy dose per day. I have a 55 gal and I put 15ml each of part A and part B. that is it, there ain't no more. I put it in when I wake up and don't worry about anything until the next morning. I do a 5% water change every 2 weeks. I hear and read too many horror stories about using Kalk and having Alkalinity problems. or vice versa.

I have not gone through that Oceans Blend.

Just to spark up the info a bit, here is the excerpt from their site.

Quote:
Ocean's Blend is the closest trace element additive to the natural ocean's elements that you can buy. Ocean's Blend is designed to give you over 70 total trace elements. We feel that the additives you add to your reef aquarium should be as close to Mother Nature as possible. Why? The closer you make your reef tank to the ocean the better growth and diverse your aquarium will be.



Ocean's Blend helps combat algae by containing no nitrates or phosphates, precipitating phosphates, having a low iron content, and using Reverse Osmosis / Double Deionized water.



Full additive: No other additives are needed, maintains alkalinity between 3.0 meg/L and 4.0 meg/L, maintains calcium levels between 400 ppm and 450ppm, and has a high magnesium level.



Ingredients: Calcium, Chloride, Bicarbonates, Carbonate, Magnesium, Strontium, Iodine, Ag, Al, As, Au, B, Ba, Be, Bi, Br, Cd, Ce, Co, Cr, Cs, Cu, Dy, Er, Eu, F, Fe, Ga Gd, Ge, Hf, Hg, Ho, In, K, La, Li, Lu, Mn, Mo, Na, Nb, Nd, Ni, Pa, Pb, Pd, Pr, Pt, Ra, Rb, Re, Ru, Sb, Sc, Se, Si, Sm, Sn, Ta, Tb, Th, Ti, Tl, Tm, V, W, Y, Yb, Zn, Zr.


Try to get that by just dosing Kalk.
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Old 04-11-2003, 05:06 PM   #4
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Try to get that by just dosing Kalk.
TRUE, But the question is do most of our tanks need those 70 trace elements replaced on a regular basis? If we dont have corals or other creatures using up those trace elements then adding more trace elements could lend itself to having dangeriouly high levels of those trace elements.
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Old 04-11-2003, 05:07 PM   #5
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precipitating phosphates,
Hmmm, the only product I've ever heard of that does this is Kalkwasswer, I'm now interested in what the properties in kalk are that cause it to precipitate phosphates, cause the ingredients in Oceans blend read like C-balance hopped up with some traces......C-balance does not precipitate phosphates.

Whether it does or does not precipitate phosphates......It will work to maintain CA and ALK, the two part solutions have been very popular over the years, I've used them successfully before and I tend to recommend them for small tanks.
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Old 04-11-2003, 05:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by fishfreek
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Try to get that by just dosing Kalk.
TRUE, But the question is do most of our tanks need those 70 trace elements replaced on a regular basis? If we dont have corals or other creatures using up those trace elements then adding more trace elements could lend itself to having dangeriouly high levels of those trace elements.
LOL, missed that last comment, Timbo, what you got against kalk?
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Old 04-11-2003, 05:54 PM   #7
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not a thing. I just know it is only one of the many things needed in a tank. I just though I would try something different and have had great results with what I have at the present moment.

What do you have against Oceans Blend? he he
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Old 04-11-2003, 06:01 PM   #8
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What do you have against Oceans Blend? he he
Quote:
It will work to maintain CA and ALK, the two part solutions have been very popular over the years, I've used them successfully before and I tend to recommend them for small tanks.
Ahem!!!
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Old 04-11-2003, 06:18 PM   #9
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TRUE, But the question is do most of our tanks need those 70 trace elements replaced on a regular basis? If we dont have corals or other creatures using up those trace elements then adding more trace elements could lend itself to having dangeriouly high levels of those trace elements.
Ahh but FF, isn't that the purpose for water changes ? otherwise, we would not have to change water if we weren't already worried about excess nutrients and toxicity. I think it really is redundant. You only add 15 ml per day and I am not sure, of course they do not tell you how much of the trace elements are actually added in 15 ml. could be mostly RO/DI water? hmm. I am sure that the amount of kalkwasser that is needed is not the same day by day either, and most use drip emitters to continuosly add to the system. so, in essence, couldn't you over do it on that? hmmm I hate to sound like I am arguing, but, I see a lot of stuff on the web that is sometimes said simply because they don't know and it is just a guess.

I think it really is, if it works, don't try to fix it. It is working for me and like I posted before, I do not see any harmful effects and my parameters that you can check for, do not sway.
Pretty much like it says on the label...
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Old 04-11-2003, 09:54 PM   #10
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I am sure that the amount of kalkwasser that is needed is not the same day by day either,
Nope as corals grow, they need more calcium, therefore you need to add more kalk, same goes for the two part additives like yours, your tank will come to a point where you need to add more, that is the reason for testing.

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and most use drip emitters to continuosly add to the system.
I drip at night only, mostly because there is nowhere on or around my tank to add an auto top off, the reason people do the constant thing is because replacing all evaporation with kalk is the most efficient way to use it. In theory it cannot be over done, it adds nothing to the tank that accumulates. In fact...it can. If the consumption rates in your tank are low and the evaporation is high...your CA and your ALK are going to go high. Same goes for any calcium product, or ALK buffer. Fact is it is more difficult to over dose Kalk than any other additive that I've used. It is quite easy, however, to dose improperly.

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Ahh but FF, isn't that the purpose for water changes ?
Here is the scenario. 10g tank. Salt mix has 100ppm copper. per 10 gallons. Your adding 1ppm per day via Oceans blend. You change water every 2 weeks. you change 10% every 2weeks.

Start = 100ppm
Daily add = 14 ppm
-------------------------
Total = 114ppm
Remove 11.4 ppm via water change
Add 10ppm via water change
----------------------------------------
Total = 112.6ppm

All values are fictitious, used simply to make the math easy for my old brain.

So you started with 100 and after adding the traces and after a waterchange you end up 12.6 higher than you started. You can see over time, there will be many elements that will accumulate in the system, there are also some that are readily taken up by corals and will not build up. IMO, the only traces that need to be added to the tank are taken care of by your waterchanges. Since you are doing regular waterchanges every two weeks, the traces are not needed. If you were to stop doing waterchanges....then there may be some value to adding some of the trace elements known to be benificial.

Another example....The air only contains a small percentage of oxygen, the bulk of the air is made up of nitrogen, hydrogen and CO2 and other gases, The one that matters to us and is used by our bodies is oxygen. Just because it is found in natural seawater, doesn't mean all the animals in the ocean use it.

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I hate to sound like I am arguing, but, I see a lot of stuff on the web that is sometimes said simply because they don't know and it is just a guess.
I certainly hope your not implying that we are guessing about kalkwasser. Kalk has been the industry standard since before any of us ever thought of having a reef tank. I have been using kalk as well as many other additives for the last 8years I've been keeping reefs. I have read about and researched kalk, I've used it, and I recommend it to anyone that has a reef.

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I think it really is, if it works, don't try to fix it.
Make sure it is working first. Most negative effects that happen in a reef due to improper use of additives and improper set up are not immediately apparent. Reefs don't work on our time line, hair algae issues that can be directly attributed to poor setup can take 6-18 months to appear. There are several other instances that I could show.


The point of this post was which to use, kalk or Oceans blend. Simple fact is none of us can answer that question for you. You have to choose the one that fits in your budget, in your schedule and your lifestyle. Do not discount other CA supplements as well, either of these two may not fit into your tank maintenance. You may need something else.
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