Kalkwasser or Oceansblend????

[rgmatzke]

I have been reading allot about the Oceansblend products to maintain proper levels and Kalkwasser, but don't know which one to go with. Thanks for any replies.

 

[reefrunner69]

I use kalk, although I am not familiar with Ocean's Blend, I have tried various products over the years and I always come back to kalk.

 

[Guest]

I use Ocean's Blend and have not seen any adverse effects. My parameters do not sway. I have been using it for 3 months now.. I was turned onto it by my LFS because it contains all additives that are pertinant, in one easy dose per day. I have a 55 gal and I put 15ml each of part A and part B. that is it, there ain't no more. I put it in when I wake up and don't worry about anything until the next morning. I do a 5% water change every 2 weeks. I hear and read too many horror stories about using Kalk and having Alkalinity problems. or vice versa.

I have not gone through that Oceans Blend.

Just to spark up the info a bit, here is the excerpt from their site.

Ocean's Blend is the closest trace element additive to the natural ocean's elements that you can buy. Ocean's Blend is designed to give you over 70 total trace elements. We feel that the additives you add to your reef aquarium should be as close to Mother Nature as possible. Why? The closer you make your reef tank to the ocean the better growth and diverse your aquarium will be.



Ocean's Blend helps combat algae by containing no nitrates or phosphates, precipitating phosphates, having a low iron content, and using Reverse Osmosis / Double Deionized water.



Full additive: No other additives are needed, maintains alkalinity between 3.0 meg/L and 4.0 meg/L, maintains calcium levels between 400 ppm and 450ppm, and has a high magnesium level.



Ingredients: Calcium, Chloride, Bicarbonates, Carbonate, Magnesium, Strontium, Iodine, Ag, Al, As, Au, B, Ba, Be, Bi, Br, Cd, Ce, Co, Cr, Cs, Cu, Dy, Er, Eu, F, Fe, Ga Gd, Ge, Hf, Hg, Ho, In, K, La, Li, Lu, Mn, Mo, Na, Nb, Nd, Ni, Pa, Pb, Pd, Pr, Pt, Ra, Rb, Re, Ru, Sb, Sc, Se, Si, Sm, Sn, Ta, Tb, Th, Ti, Tl, Tm, V, W, Y, Yb, Zn, Zr.

Try to get that by just dosing Kalk.

 

[fishfreek]

Try to get that by just dosing Kalk.

TRUE, But the question is do most of our tanks need those 70 trace elements replaced on a regular basis? If we dont have corals or other creatures using up those trace elements then adding more trace elements could lend itself to having dangeriouly high levels of those trace elements.

 

[reefrunner69]

precipitating phosphates,

Hmmm, the only product I've ever heard of that does this is Kalkwasswer, I'm now interested in what the properties in kalk are that cause it to precipitate phosphates, cause the ingredients in Oceans blend read like C-balance hopped up with some traces......C-balance does not precipitate phosphates.

Whether it does or does not precipitate phosphates......It will work to maintain CA and ALK, the two part solutions have been very popular over the years, I've used them successfully before and I tend to recommend them for small tanks.

 

[reefrunner69]

Try to get that by just dosing Kalk.

TRUE, But the question is do most of our tanks need those 70 trace elements replaced on a regular basis? If we dont have corals or other creatures using up those trace elements then adding more trace elements could lend itself to having dangeriouly high levels of those trace elements.

LOL, missed that last comment, Timbo, what you got against kalk?

 

[Guest]

not a thing. I just know it is only one of the many things needed in a tank. I just though I would try something different and have had great results with what I have at the present moment.

What do you have against Oceans Blend? he he

 

[reefrunner69]

What do you have against Oceans Blend? he he

It will work to maintain CA and ALK, the two part solutions have been very popular over the years, I've used them successfully before and I tend to recommend them for small tanks.

Ahem!!!

 

[Guest]

TRUE, But the question is do most of our tanks need those 70 trace elements replaced on a regular basis? If we dont have corals or other creatures using up those trace elements then adding more trace elements could lend itself to having dangeriouly high levels of those trace elements.

Ahh but FF, isn't that the purpose for water changes ? otherwise, we would not have to change water if we weren't already worried about excess nutrients and toxicity. I think it really is redundant. You only add 15 ml per day and I am not sure, of course they do not tell you how much of the trace elements are actually added in 15 ml. could be mostly RO/DI water? hmm. I am sure that the amount of kalkwasser that is needed is not the same day by day either, and most use drip emitters to continuosly add to the system. so, in essence, couldn't you over do it on that? hmmm I hate to sound like I am arguing, but, I see a lot of stuff on the web that is sometimes said simply because they don't know and it is just a guess.

I think it really is, if it works, don't try to fix it. It is working for me and like I posted before, I do not see any harmful effects and my parameters that you can check for, do not sway.
Pretty much like it says on the label...

 

[reefrunner69]

I am sure that the amount of kalkwasser that is needed is not the same day by day either,

Nope as corals grow, they need more calcium, therefore you need to add more kalk, same goes for the two part additives like yours, your tank will come to a point where you need to add more, that is the reason for testing.

and most use drip emitters to continuosly add to the system.

I drip at night only, mostly because there is nowhere on or around my tank to add an auto top off, the reason people do the constant thing is because replacing all evaporation with kalk is the most efficient way to use it. In theory it cannot be over done, it adds nothing to the tank that accumulates. In fact...it can. If the consumption rates in your tank are low and the evaporation is high...your CA and your ALK are going to go high. Same goes for any calcium product, or ALK buffer. Fact is it is more difficult to over dose Kalk than any other additive that I've used. It is quite easy, however, to dose improperly.

Ahh but FF, isn't that the purpose for water changes ?

Here is the scenario. 10g tank. Salt mix has 100ppm copper. per 10 gallons. Your adding 1ppm per day via Oceans blend. You change water every 2 weeks. you change 10% every 2weeks.

Start = 100ppm
Daily add = 14 ppm
-------------------------
Total = 114ppm
Remove 11.4 ppm via water change
Add 10ppm via water change
----------------------------------------
Total = 112.6ppm

All values are fictitious, used simply to make the math easy for my old brain.

So you started with 100 and after adding the traces and after a waterchange you end up 12.6 higher than you started. You can see over time, there will be many elements that will accumulate in the system, there are also some that are readily taken up by corals and will not build up. IMO, the only traces that need to be added to the tank are taken care of by your waterchanges. Since you are doing regular waterchanges every two weeks, the traces are not needed. If you were to stop doing waterchanges....then there may be some value to adding some of the trace elements known to be benificial.

Another example....The air only contains a small percentage of oxygen, the bulk of the air is made up of nitrogen, hydrogen and CO2 and other gases, The one that matters to us and is used by our bodies is oxygen. Just because it is found in natural seawater, doesn't mean all the animals in the ocean use it.

I hate to sound like I am arguing, but, I see a lot of stuff on the web that is sometimes said simply because they don't know and it is just a guess.

I certainly hope your not implying that we are guessing about kalkwasser. Kalk has been the industry standard since before any of us ever thought of having a reef tank. I have been using kalk as well as many other additives for the last 8years I've been keeping reefs. I have read about and researched kalk, I've used it, and I recommend it to anyone that has a reef.

I think it really is, if it works, don't try to fix it.

Make sure it is working first. Most negative effects that happen in a reef due to improper use of additives and improper set up are not immediately apparent. Reefs don't work on our time line, hair algae issues that can be directly attributed to poor setup can take 6-18 months to appear. There are several other instances that I could show.


The point of this post was which to use, kalk or Oceans blend. Simple fact is none of us can answer that question for you. You have to choose the one that fits in your budget, in your schedule and your lifestyle. Do not discount other CA supplements as well, either of these two may not fit into your tank maintenance. You may need something else.

 

[Guest]

Points are well taken. I appreciate that. The thing I hear in all of this is not a question of Kalk or Oceans blend. I mentioned earlier that I use Oceans Blend. also I mentioned I have not seen any ill effects. I also, gave the information off of the bottle. I did not say anything bad about Kalk, I just said you can't get all of the trace elements by just dosing Kalk. I also mentioned the ups and downs I have read, of Cal and Alk problems related to use of Kalk. Not that it is bad. You have valid points in your comments just as I have. You say you recommend the use of 2 part additives for small tanks, why not large? What is the difference? less to more? Personally, it sounds to me that everytime I try to talk or share my experience with Oceans Blend, it gets shot down in flames. I do not appreciate that.

 

[reefrunner69]

Personally, it sounds to me that everytime I try to talk or share my experience with Oceans Blend, it gets shot down in flames.

Well, I can't help you there. I have never said anything bad about Oceans blend, nor have I disparaged anyone for using it, nor have I seen anyone on this forum disparage anyone for using it. I specifically said it would work. You said in your first post, you have read horror stories about kalk, this begs the question...have you ever used it? In my first post, I posted first hand info, did you? The "horror stories" is a negative connotation that is not deserved. I am very happy that you are pleased with your additive, I encourage you to recommend it if you feel it is a good product. Through out this thread I have said a 2 part additive will work, I said flat out Oceans Blend would work, I said they have been popular for years, but I do not use them. That is not shooting it down in flames. As for my last post...I addressed points in your post. I did not say anything bad about the product, I tried to point out that the manner in which you are using it may have flaws.

You say you recommend the use of 2 part additives for small tanks, why not large?

Money. Two part additives will kill you in the long run on a larger tank. For a larger tank I would recommend a CA reactor or a kalk reactor.

 

[Guest]

you have read horror stories about kalk, this begs the question...have you ever used it?

I did buy some of the Kent Marines brand and used it and I guess I just didn't do it right or whatever that may be, but just as I read, when I did, I seemed to have a problem with Alkalinity and that is when I went to the LFS and they recommended Oceans Blend. The owner showed me his tank and exclaimed he had been using 2 part additives for a long time. (How long of time I don't remember). he had a lot of beautiful corals in the tank. I have been using it since. It has been 3 months and it seems ok for now. I will let you know in 6 - 18 months from now.
I appologize for the hot headedness. I am definately no match for you guys, you have been doing this a lot longer than I have.

I really don't see why you say it is more expensive though, it is only $30 for 2 gal of the stuff, and when you add up the cost of all of the seperate chemicals, it seems to me it would be more expensive the other route, even with a larger tank.

I do agree that a Cal reactor would be cool and less expensive in the long run, but with a tank smaller than 100 gal, I do not see it as an economical solution. The startup costs are coming down, but are still a little steep. however, that is initial $ and not long run $.

Peace

 

[kwtowmaster]

I just ordered some oceans blend .Im going to give the 2 gal. a try.I'v been dosing w/ kalkwasser ,I just dont like the little dinky doser I bought .dont think I dosing enough.Im not taking any sides Ill let everyone know how it works out.now and make nice.

 

[Guest]

I emailed the company and aked questions. Below is the reply from Russell at Oceans Blend.

I believe he is reitterating what RR and FF say about the additive and the effects.

From: "Sales" <sales@oceansblend.com>
Reply-To: <sales@oceansblend.com>
To: Tim
Subject: Re: The toxicity or over abundance of trace elements

Tim,

Yes today there has been alot of debate on trace element additions. I believe that the closer you make your system to the ocean then the better results you get. Yes you will in time elivate your elements higher an higher. Skimmers,water changes and carbon have been suggested in helping keeping these elements in line. In the 5 yrs I have been using the two part that I make and have not seen any negative effects. I add 1 ml per gal per day and have even tried 1500 ml in two days on a 300 gal system. All the corals looked as good as ever. The lack of spawning has also been brought up due to excess trace elements. I have a freind that has been using my two part for 5 yrs also and just reported his leather spawned. The best advice anyone has given on this subject is to look at your corals and see if they like it. They are the ultimate test kit and judge of what is right for them. As far as percipitating phosphate it is done by the split second you add your chemicals. It may not be alot but is not needed if proper tank care is given. I hope this helps answer your questions.

Russell

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Tim
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:13:46 -0400

>Hello,
>
>I am writing this email to hopefully get some clarifications and rectify
>some statements that have been made in several forums on the internet.
>
>I have been using Oceans Blend for about 3 months now, and recommend it to
>anyone that asks for an easier way to maintain levels within their Saltwater
>Aquarium. The questions I have are, after using OB everyday, (I use 15ml of
>each part per day on a 55 gal aquarium), should I be worried about toxicity
>over the course of time with excess trace elements that aren't being used
>up? Would it cause problems? I take on a 5% water change every 2
>weeks.

>Thank you,
>
>Tim