ryshark
Aquarium Advice Addict
happened again... yeah you are right. I think we need a "Live online chat" in AA that is up 24-7.
Lighting for Corals & Expenses
- Thread starter Crepe
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
happened again... yeah you are right. I think we need a "Live online chat" in AA that is up 24-7.
mrg02d
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I am not discounting the research being done by those with LED lighting...I am discouraging someone with little experience with reef tanks from busting out the cash for an LED light at this time. I think it is better for those with equipment that can give us some concrete numbers and facts about LED operation than potentially turn off someone from it alltogether. I know that if I was new and spent $200.00 and messed up, id be mad.
Maybe someone here with more experience can chime in?
1-What happens when you decrease the power to the LED? Does the color temp drop significantly?
2-How much PAR can one expect from the typical CREE XR-E LEDs in a shallow tank?
3-How is the algae growth? Maybe someone with these leds can try to grow some chaeto and compare the growth to that of a gas bulb?
4-How do you correctly implement LEDs over a tank? As in, how do you arrange them? My guess would be similarly to t5 bulbs. Strings of LEDs in series with a driver for each series.
Example: If I have a 24in 24w t5 bulb, that is 1W/inch. If I were to replicate that with LEDs, I could string up 8 3W LEDs to get the same power/inch. But now, how does the PAR come into play? I Imagine 96W of LED over a 24in tank with a depth of 17in would be way too much, no? Decreasing the power may cause the color temp. to drop into the algae growing range, no?
Matt
Maybe someone here with more experience can chime in?
1-What happens when you decrease the power to the LED? Does the color temp drop significantly?
2-How much PAR can one expect from the typical CREE XR-E LEDs in a shallow tank?
3-How is the algae growth? Maybe someone with these leds can try to grow some chaeto and compare the growth to that of a gas bulb?
4-How do you correctly implement LEDs over a tank? As in, how do you arrange them? My guess would be similarly to t5 bulbs. Strings of LEDs in series with a driver for each series.
Example: If I have a 24in 24w t5 bulb, that is 1W/inch. If I were to replicate that with LEDs, I could string up 8 3W LEDs to get the same power/inch. But now, how does the PAR come into play? I Imagine 96W of LED over a 24in tank with a depth of 17in would be way too much, no? Decreasing the power may cause the color temp. to drop into the algae growing range, no?
Matt
Jimbo7
Aquarium Advice Addict
I am not discounting the research being done by those with LED lighting...I am discouraging someone with little experience with reef tanks from busting out the cash for an LED light at this time. I think it is better for those with equipment that can give us some concrete numbers and facts about LED operation than potentially turn off someone from it alltogether. I know that if I was new and spent $200.00 and messed up, id be mad.
I'm pretty sure by now he knows that this is experimental. What we do know is you will get results, and they do work. We just need an accurate way to measure it and compare it to other things, which is almost impossible.
Maybe someone here with more experience can chime in?
1-What happens when you decrease the power to the LED? Does the color temp drop significantly?
I have seen pictures of people lights dimming on and off, its nothing we can see, but again. who knows.
2-How much PAR can one expect from the typical CREE XR-E LEDs in a shallow tank?
That depends on how many you use, how spaced they are, and if you use optics.
DIY LEDs - The write-up - Reef Central Online Community
He has PAR readings listed, and frankly i think he underlit it. I would expect 300 at the least, probably doubled with good use of optics.
3-How is the algae growth? Maybe someone with these leds can try to grow some chaeto and compare the growth to that of a gas bulb?
If i had the resources i want to perform lots of things like this. But its not in the cards right now.
4-How do you correctly implement LEDs over a tank? As in, how do you arrange them? My guess would be similarly to t5 bulbs. Strings of LEDs in series with a driver for each series.
I provided an ample list of DIY projects, but the numbers i kept seeing were 1.5 inches between LED's in series and 2 inches between each series. If that makes sense.
Example: If I have a 24in 24w t5 bulb, that is 1W/inch. If I were to replicate that with LEDs, I could string up 8 3W LEDs to get the same power/inch. But now, how does the PAR come into play? I Imagine 96W of LED over a 24in tank with a depth of 17in would be way too much, no? Decreasing the power may cause the color temp. to drop into the algae growing range, no?
As far as i know, there is no 1 LED/g rule or anything like you have described. It's all an experiment. Plus with LEDs there are so many factors you have to take into account you don't with other lighting systems. Spacing, what mA you run them at, if you use optics, things like that. Thats why we need more people doing it!
Matt
where are you ryshark, i know you are close behind.
I'm pretty sure by now he knows that this is experimental. What we do know is you will get results, and they do work. We just need an accurate way to measure it and compare it to other things, which is almost impossible.
Maybe someone here with more experience can chime in?
1-What happens when you decrease the power to the LED? Does the color temp drop significantly?
I have seen pictures of people lights dimming on and off, its nothing we can see, but again. who knows.
2-How much PAR can one expect from the typical CREE XR-E LEDs in a shallow tank?
That depends on how many you use, how spaced they are, and if you use optics.
DIY LEDs - The write-up - Reef Central Online Community
He has PAR readings listed, and frankly i think he underlit it. I would expect 300 at the least, probably doubled with good use of optics.
3-How is the algae growth? Maybe someone with these leds can try to grow some chaeto and compare the growth to that of a gas bulb?
If i had the resources i want to perform lots of things like this. But its not in the cards right now.
4-How do you correctly implement LEDs over a tank? As in, how do you arrange them? My guess would be similarly to t5 bulbs. Strings of LEDs in series with a driver for each series.
I provided an ample list of DIY projects, but the numbers i kept seeing were 1.5 inches between LED's in series and 2 inches between each series. If that makes sense.
Example: If I have a 24in 24w t5 bulb, that is 1W/inch. If I were to replicate that with LEDs, I could string up 8 3W LEDs to get the same power/inch. But now, how does the PAR come into play? I Imagine 96W of LED over a 24in tank with a depth of 17in would be way too much, no? Decreasing the power may cause the color temp. to drop into the algae growing range, no?
As far as i know, there is no 1 LED/g rule or anything like you have described. It's all an experiment. Plus with LEDs there are so many factors you have to take into account you don't with other lighting systems. Spacing, what mA you run them at, if you use optics, things like that. Thats why we need more people doing it!
Matt
where are you ryshark, i know you are close behind.
OP
OP
Crepe
Aquarium Advice Addict
Guys calm down...I'm going to email the provider and ask what color tolerance the bulbs have. So far he's answered all my questions very promptly.
mrg02d
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Alright, so it sounds as if the main issue unresolved with LED reef lighting is:
1-What happens when dimming LEDs. Not what we see, but what the algae/corals see. I probably wont be able to see that my 10,000k led is how a 5000k led since I would have some blue leds in there, but the algae and corals just might see.
I believe more people would be doing if the prices came down some. I would hop on board if I could guarantee that my 8000k LED didnt turn into a 5000k led when dimmed in the event my corals start bleaching.
All I need is the LED and the LED "star". I can build the rest including drivers that will go from zero mA up to whatever my power supply can source.
Matt
1-What happens when dimming LEDs. Not what we see, but what the algae/corals see. I probably wont be able to see that my 10,000k led is how a 5000k led since I would have some blue leds in there, but the algae and corals just might see.
I believe more people would be doing if the prices came down some. I would hop on board if I could guarantee that my 8000k LED didnt turn into a 5000k led when dimmed in the event my corals start bleaching.
All I need is the LED and the LED "star". I can build the rest including drivers that will go from zero mA up to whatever my power supply can source.
Matt
Jimbo7
Aquarium Advice Addict
Or why is there such a range of kelvin for each LED, we are only guessing this range is due to dimming.1-What happens when dimming LEDs. Not what we see, but what the algae/corals see. I probably wont be able to see that my 10,000k led is how a 5000k led since I would have some blue leds in there, but the algae and corals just might see.
Everyones calm? We are just discussing. Post up his email when he responds if you wouldnt mind. Im curious.
OP
OP
Crepe
Aquarium Advice Addict
Not getting the LEDs I emailed the guy and he said that they just plain vary, currently they have 6500k bulbs. Going with T5s...*sigh. It would have been a fun project. Oh well more for live stock.
I've also asked some of the questions you have posed such as a dimmer's effect on the lights' color. I'll have the response by tomorrow most probably. But apparently the color is guaranteed it's just they have some and others.
I've also asked some of the questions you have posed such as a dimmer's effect on the lights' color. I'll have the response by tomorrow most probably. But apparently the color is guaranteed it's just they have some and others.
thominil
Aquarium Advice Addict
When keeping coral and nems, or any invert for that matter, yes it is, hydrometers are horridly inaccurate, especially when the temp. isn't in the correct range. With fish, you can get away with a hydrometer, but I'd rather be safe than sorry with a refractometer.
My hydrometer read 1.026sg. My refractor read 1.022sg. Off by .004. Thats huge!.
Now the LED thing.
I think that if you are wanting a quick light, for a 10g, campacts or t-5 are great. You can grow a lot of nice coral.
LEDs that are manufactured are crap IMO. Of course, the high end pacsuns are not. There is no dimming of LEDs unless you are using a sub par driver (or power supply with puc). If built properly like jimbo or I or Ziggy is doing then you will be satisfied. The actual lights put of no radiant heat. The heat is taken away by heat sink and high powered fans. I have 90w on my tank and they have the par of a 150mh. But use about 3/4 the power. Then you also save by not needing a chiller. The dimming in LEDs is only seen after years of use. So, if you use high quality parts dimming will not occur until about 8 years down the road. This is like buying ferrarri parts and building in your garage. If done properly, you get a ferrarri. The reason LEDs are cool is because they are controlable. Like you could have a cloud pass over.
As far as spectrum, My blues are 460. Same as actinic. My whites would be 20000k. This is based on the power I supply. LEDs are new and hard to understand. There are too many manufactuers putting out sub-par products. But they technology is there. We just need to work on the proof.
I have a birds nest that looks better than it did in my friends 150mh. Is it luck?
Now the LED thing.
I think that if you are wanting a quick light, for a 10g, campacts or t-5 are great. You can grow a lot of nice coral.
LEDs that are manufactured are crap IMO. Of course, the high end pacsuns are not. There is no dimming of LEDs unless you are using a sub par driver (or power supply with puc). If built properly like jimbo or I or Ziggy is doing then you will be satisfied. The actual lights put of no radiant heat. The heat is taken away by heat sink and high powered fans. I have 90w on my tank and they have the par of a 150mh. But use about 3/4 the power. Then you also save by not needing a chiller. The dimming in LEDs is only seen after years of use. So, if you use high quality parts dimming will not occur until about 8 years down the road. This is like buying ferrarri parts and building in your garage. If done properly, you get a ferrarri. The reason LEDs are cool is because they are controlable. Like you could have a cloud pass over.
As far as spectrum, My blues are 460. Same as actinic. My whites would be 20000k. This is based on the power I supply. LEDs are new and hard to understand. There are too many manufactuers putting out sub-par products. But they technology is there. We just need to work on the proof.
I have a birds nest that looks better than it did in my friends 150mh. Is it luck?
AMDPhenomX4
Aquarium Advice FINatic
The color temp of LED's is pure white. This means less blue is needed and the color temp is whiter in person then with an incandescent. On reefcentral, a guy has made a dual driver for LED strings with dimming. The driver would drive both a blue and white string and be built for less than $20.00. XP-G's are better for the white coloring than XR-E. Xr-e's are used mainly for the blue color. As noted before, optics on a tank this size are not worth the price. A 10G reef can easily be kept with 16 LED's spaced accordingly. A mix of 2 white to 1 blue is a good color for most people.
OP
OP
Crepe
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'm not worried about getting T5s I have a t5 set up for my freshwater tank. I was just wanting to try something new out.
Where are u in H-town. My buddy from high school owns city pets by beltway 8. He get some unusuall stuff. There is also a "guru" for the led at fish ranch. At fondren and 59. I think thats where it is. Plus there is gallery of fish in the river oaks area. Worth a look. High end aquarium stuff.
mrg02d
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Where did you get your LEDs? Thats the only thing holding me back, LEDs! Haha! I cannot find 20000k LEDs anywhere, nor any place that has anything speced for more than 6500k
Matt
AMDPhenomX4
Aquarium Advice FINatic
LED's are as my post stated PURE white. This means 6500k in LED's is like 12000k in incandescent.
mrg02d
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Now I am really confused...So 6500k in LEDs is the same as a 12000k t5?
And I can dim these LEDs (drive them at lower current) and still have them keep their kelvin rating, right? Id love to be able to dim the whites and blues to get different combinations of color (blue/white mix that is).
I may try this out on my pico tank. Its a 2.5g tank. Might 3 whites and 3 blues be a good plan for keeping LPS corals? Or might this be too much PAR for 6in of water?
Matt
OP
OP
Crepe
Aquarium Advice Addict
I've been to city pets and I get all my plants from Fish Gallery haha.
Mitchell0605
Aquarium Advice Addict
Agreed. I have a fantastic T5HO fixture with 6 bulbs in it and I love it to bits. Well worth the $180AU.
AMDPhenomX4
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Well, not exactly 12000k, but it was an example. Look at aquailluminations. They use XP-G's and a ratio of 2-1 white blue, and get any color imagined. For a 2.5G tank, 12 XR-E's would be good and you could dim them down as well. You could also use Luxeon Rebels. Just use a lower output LED with a dimming driver like the one i posted and you can set it to your liking.
