Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater Reef Aquaria
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 03-07-2003, 09:19 PM   #11
AA Team Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,224
Send a message via Yahoo to Hara
I think the sheer numbers of freshwater fish that die in fishstores is astronomical,one of the reasons being what Micheal mentioned. Money.
They buy guppies by the hundreds and tangs by the couple. The couple cost more than the hundreds, they take better care of how they acclimatize etc.

I get sad when I lose a fish, fresh or salt. The numbers do not come into it,(except when I am warning the lionfish he better not have a 40.00 snack) I was just as upset when I lost my blue paradise that I had for 2 years as when the mandarin fish decided to inspect the interior of a powerhead. But I also have to say that I do not spend a couple hours acclimatizing any freshwater fish.
__________________

__________________
Hara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2003, 11:01 PM   #12
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
In fact the vast majority of the live rock us americans can purchase is strickly regulated by our government. (its my understanding that back in the early 90's Florida started regulating the live rock collection trade)
no offense, honest, but you asked for my links, and questioned my sources, please provide me some proof here. Seriously, i see many refs. to Fiji rock and such, what regs. are involved there, or any other foriegn country?

I found links to stuff, whatcha got for me???

Especially on the subject of captive breeding/reproduction of SW fish or inverts.

Any lists of things you shouldn't buy due to rarity in the wild, stuff like that?

And Hara, Other than Shrimp, I actually purchase very little fish for food. I'm a fisherman/crabber (recreational) and follow my state's regulations. More catch and release than catch and keep for me.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2003, 11:55 PM   #13
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stonington Ct
Posts: 131
Send a message via Yahoo to enjoyfish
I know some fish are colleted wrong . But the reason for this is simple .
Money . but before you say anything , the money is not for a 56" plazama TV witch you may have . It to feed a family rice . I KNOW . Now if you catch fish by cotten net . you catch less and that means less money . and your 2 year old son might go hungry that night . Lets look at this . A man in the indo pasific gets 17 cents for a powder blue tang . you buy it for 26$ . thats a big mark up . collecter shipper wholesaler retailer . hummmmm . Maybe they wood collect by net if they got more money . this is from a fish and wildlife report 1999.
__________________
enjoyfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2003, 12:08 AM   #14
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Ok,

Most people on this board knows how I feel about the WC and TR discussions.

Personally, I think it is irresponsible to even bring up a no end debate on the subject.

The fact is this:

FW and SW both have some (very little by volume) impact on the environment. The rate of reproduction in the wild is very high as opposed the amount being caught for sale in a LFS.

Take it from me, I used to be a commercial fisherman. (that is where the impact is not for sale in your tank but in your mouth)

Another thing. You can put all the websites you want up here and it would not amount to a hill of beans.

I do not believe everything I read and certainly not everything I hear. Most of the people that write this stuff are paid to do so, and they leave out the stuff that people do not want to hear.

Example: Seatbelt manufacturers have to make money, so they campaign to get laws passed to make it mandatory to wear them while driving. The law makers get thrown statistics and gues what? It shows the percentages of people being in accidents and living wearing them, but not the ones who live not wearing them. This sells, they make it law.

It simply doesn't make sense to say that actually .05% of wildlife is actually affected. IT doesn't make money and donations from investors. But if they say 10% is affected, and that due to over fishing, the reefs are going away, they get money... It simply makes the world go around.

So, the next time you want to start a discussion about the impact of the SW as opposed to FW? Put on a wet suit and go diving. Check out just how many fish are around those reefs and inland waters for yourself..

And why I chose SW over FW well it is simple. IMO it is just to drab for me.

BTW: You are in the Blue Crab Capital of the world. How do you think those crabs feel? And they go in the stomach. They don't even get to be admired in your living room......Think about that one...and talk to your senator
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2003, 07:57 PM   #15
AA Team Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,256
Send a message via ICQ to fishfreek Send a message via AIM to fishfreek Send a message via MSN to fishfreek Send a message via Yahoo to fishfreek
I just wanted to inform everyone that I do feel stronly about aquaculture. In fact i found a local saltwater hobbists just a mile from my house the other week. He is only 1 month into his tank and I gave him a few lbs of my live sand to help him get his tank started.

That act had zero effect on the wild habitat. ALso this summer I plan on being able to trade what we in the saltwater area call frags.

Frags if your unfimular with the term are small coral cuttings that come from a tank. The net effect is not having to sell/buy a coral cutting that was removed from the ocean.

Many of us saltwater people are so dedicated to aquaculture that there is a newly formed website www.fragexchange.com
__________________
Remember dont tap the glass, your fish will think you're an idiot -Anonymous mother

Check out our articles area. 30+ Aquatic articles for your enjoyment
Are you in or around the Shenandoah Valley area? If so click here to join our regional forum.
fishfreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2003, 08:59 PM   #16
AA Team Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chatsworth, GA
Posts: 4,071
Send a message via Yahoo to loganj
Paul...I gotta hand it to ya...you really know how to stir up the hornets nest Kidding...I think it's a good subject.
I'm not going to bore everyone with a long discourse about my views on the subject. I will only say that Brandon and I are working very hard to get a small coral farm going at the store. Are all the specimens we are starting with TR? Probably not...I don't have a clue. Will the frags that we sell be TR? Absolutely. I really think, instead of howling about what the other guy is doing, we should look at what we are doing. For each TR coral frag that goes out the door (at APC or anywhere else...including your house), a WC coral gets a better chance at staying on the reef. Why? Simple...supply and demand. Where there is demand, there will soon be supply. Whether it's coral frags, fish, or whatever. The more TR stuff on the market, the less demand for the WC. This will eventually catch up to the wholesalers and then to the collectors. The wholesaler finds, due to a good supply of healthy TR Xenia, that his half dead WC isn't selling well. He tells the collector "Can't pay $2.00 a piece any more...10 cents is the best I can do". Will the collector continue to collect this species? I doubt it.
Sad as that sounds, it will be the only way we'll ever start to move away from WC fish and inverts. Lots of progress has been made breeding marine species and more will come in the future.
We can't control what happens in some small country halfway around the world, but we can control what is bought here. Jeez...I did get long winded...sorry .
Logan J
__________________
loganj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 12:29 PM   #17
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Paul...I gotta hand it to ya...you really know how to stir up the hornets nest Kidding...I think it's a good subject.
Well yes, I kinda did want to do that! But not to be mean or judgemental, just to get people thinking. I'm not a PETA nut or anything, I just think everyone should give some thought to where their critters come from, and make an informed decision before purchasing.

Honestly, I do feel that progrees is being made in SW aquaculture, and that is a good thing. With time and research, hopefully both FW and SW will get to a point where everything we keep in tanks has zero affect on wild populations.

Quote:
I will only say that Brandon and I are working very hard to get a small coral farm going at the store.
Good deal! Thats what is needed. Good old Capitalism at work, don't wait for someone else to do it, do it yourself!

Any other views on the subject would still be appreciated, I enjoy hearing what people think.

Hmm... Next topic, Abortion? War with Iraq? Religion? Affirmative Action?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!! Just kidding folks, just kidding.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 02:40 PM   #18
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,151
Sorry man, I already tried Abortion. I think it was deleted or something. I love to debate, but I will tell you right now you will get a whole lot of conservative veiws, not a single democratic one, I think. THIS DOESNT MEAN I DONT LIKE DEMOCRATS, I JUST DONT LIKE THEIR VEIWS.... on most things. Thought i would vent. Thanks
__________________
If you don't love what you do, you'd better find something else to love. Otherwise, you don't have a reason for living.
-Ray B.
d9hp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 05:35 PM   #19
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Lakewood, NJ
Posts: 471
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh this is what this site used to be, lively debates about the hobby, and not about Tats and piercings (im sure there is a site for this). I am not as well versed as I should be but I do belive the S/W issues are improving. As posted above Retailers and hobbyist alike are aware of the improper ways of harvesting fish and corals and are making the switch to tank raised. This will take time but it will happen. Also I did'nt chose either I have both F/W & S/W
__________________
John

75 gal. Reef & 30 gal. Anemone Tanks.

I get paid for what I may have to do, Not for what I do!
EMS503 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2003, 10:37 PM   #20
AA Team Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,256
Send a message via ICQ to fishfreek Send a message via AIM to fishfreek Send a message via MSN to fishfreek Send a message via Yahoo to fishfreek
Just thought I would bring this topic up again with a little info I just saw.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...ral_pagesid=96

Please click on the above link and read about the AMDA or The American Marinelife Dealers Association
  • AMDA Goals

    Establish a network of retail stores who conduct business by AMDA Standards of Practice
    Raise public awareness of the industry's role in marine conservation
    Provide up-to-date information on proper animal husbandry
    Ensure the health and quality of marinelife through responsible handling and husbandry practices
    Encourage responsible husbandry through education and training
    Support supply of captive bred marine organisms as an alternate source of marinelife for aquariums
__________________

__________________
Remember dont tap the glass, your fish will think you're an idiot -Anonymous mother

Check out our articles area. 30+ Aquatic articles for your enjoyment
Are you in or around the Shenandoah Valley area? If so click here to join our regional forum.
fishfreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
iron, live

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do Environmental Factors Influence the Sex of Fry? Darb21 Freshwater & Brackish - Breeding 4 07-19-2008 01:05 PM
Goldfish Not Very Lively Yao Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 1 12-27-2005 08:03 PM
environmental impact pm64971 Saltwater & Reef - Sick Fish or Coral 5 10-14-2003 10:33 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.