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Old 08-14-2005, 12:20 AM   #1
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Liverock: Should I wait for HO lighting?

so i have a new 15 gallon tank with a single clownfish. i'd like to eventually upgrade to a power compact strip and throw a good skimmer on there. i'm eventually gonna get some live rock. now should i wait until i get the good lighting in hopes of growing some cool stuff? i love the deep purple coraline algae.

i know i have to wait for better lighting before i get an anenome. what kinda bio-load does an anenome produce? how big will a magnificent anenome get? is there a better choice for a false percula host?

i'm gonna have a Marineland Emperor 280 wet/dry powerfilter as well as a good quality protien skimmer on a 15 gallon. would a pair of false perculas, 3 small yellow-tailed damsels, an anenome, and a cleaning crew be overstocked? i will be able to do 30% water changes each week.
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Old 08-14-2005, 02:19 AM   #2
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Quote:
i'd like to eventually upgrade to a power compact strip and throw a good skimmer on there
If your really serious, about an anemone or keeping a reef, get either MH supplemented with Actinics of your stlye (VHO/CF) or the coralife double strip with two 55W bulbs. The former will let you keep almost anything considering you will be adding a great amount of light on a small depth so peneration of light is be pretty good. The latter might limit you to certain types of sps/clams but i'm not even sure if your want them. Get the MH to be safe.

Quote:
i'm eventually gonna get some live rock. now should i wait until i get the good lighting in hopes of growing some cool stuff? i love the deep purple coraline algae.
Look for LR with lots and lots of hitchhiker (the good ones). If you have NO lghts, those should be enough to sustain the algae growth. I'm not to partial on coarline because I have read posts where people have spents years, literally years growing coraline and nothing working. But supposedly, bluer spectrum lights are a definite plus. Even if you do lose your coraline, if your ca/alk is in check, you could always seed it with a new piece of lr. All my live rock had color on it but I eventually lost most of it because I used IO and my ca was never high enough. oh yea, lost of water movement helps.

Quote:
i know i have to wait for better lighting before i get an anenome. what kinda bio-load does an anenome produce? how big will a magnificent anenome get? is there a better choice for a false percula host?
heres a link to the anemone

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=631

its says 10 inches in an aquarium so that is a sizable amount in a 15 gallon. i think anemone don't add to much to the bio-load. the only way they would be the owner's falut. If he/she gave it too big a chunk of food, only to have the food be spit out and rot behind a piece of LR at night. An easier one to pair would actually be a bubble tip but those actually be bigger. Clownfish are a strange type because you might actually spend hundreds on dollars to have a clownfish/anemone pair only to have the clown fish host a powerhead. You could try a hairy mushroom coral. If if gets to big, you could frag it and give to to a friend or lfs for money. But heres the most important info. You MUST let your tank mature AT LEAST 6 months. You need all the good bacteria to evolve within the tank for your invert to survive well.

Quote:
i'm gonna have a Marineland Emperor 280 wet/dry powerfilter as well as a good quality protien skimmer on a 15 gallon.
Ditch the Emporer. The bio-wheel is going to make nitrates levels too high of levels to keep sensitive inverts, especially anemones. I have an Aquaclear powerfilter and I absolutly love it. My nitrates are always in a sensible range. If you get a protein skimmer, I would suggest adding a sump to your tank and put the skimmer there. I have the CSS65 and the pump is huge in my 15 gallon. And if you get a skimmer, get the CSS65. I will never buy a different brand. The skimmate will make you lose your stomach every time you smell it.

Quote:
would a pair of false perculas, 3 small yellow-tailed damsels, an anenome, and a cleaning crew be overstocked?
Yes. the damsels will have territroy issues and 3 in a 15 WILL become a problem. I would get a pair of clowns, and a blenny (I adore thier personality), and MAYBE a small goby of sort. I might ditch either of the last two if you get an anemone to lower the bio-load. This is all assuming you have the skimmer installed. Two clownfish and an anemone won't be to bad of an idea because if makes the 3 of them the centerpeice of the tank. Theres no damsel of goby swimming around to distract the sybiotic pairing. thats just my idea though.

Quote:
i will be able to do 30% water changes each week.
At first, when you just have fish, 15%-20% WC every other are enough because they won't have problems with higher nitrates. Save yourself the time and money on salt if you can. But when you get hard inverts, weekly WC are a definite plus.

One question for you though. What exactly is your form of filtration on the tank currently? It doesn't seem like you have LR and maybe just a lower end filter. I hope you did let you tank cycle somehow for the clown.
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15 Gallon
2 O. Clownfish
4 Chromis
Coco Worm
Feather Duster
Cleanup Crew
21# LR
20#LS
----------------------------------
Coralife Aqualight
-36W 10000K
-36W Actinic
Coralife Super Skimmer 65
Aquaclear 50 filter
Aquaclear 20 ph
Marineland Visitherm 50W heater
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:11 AM   #3
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thanks for the extensive reply, lasek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lasek2k1
Quote:
i'd like to eventually upgrade to a power compact strip and throw a good skimmer on there
If your really serious, about an anemone or keeping a reef, get either MH supplemented with Actinics of your stlye (VHO/CF) or the coralife double strip with two 55W bulbs. The former will let you keep almost anything considering you will be adding a great amount of light on a small depth so peneration of light is be pretty good. The latter might limit you to certain types of sps/clams but i'm not even sure if your want them. Get the MH to be safe.
i definitely can't afford or be bothered with MH. i was thinking about the coralife 20" AQUALIGHT - 50/50 4-TUBE. it's 96 watts total. i read something that anenomes need 4 watts per gallon. if that was true, it would be adequate, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasek2k1
Quote:
i know i have to wait for better lighting before i get an anenome. what kinda bio-load does an anenome produce? how big will a magnificent anenome get? is there a better choice for a false percula host?
heres a link to the anemone

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=631

its says 10 inches in an aquarium so that is a sizable amount in a 15 gallon. i think anemone don't add to much to the bio-load. the only way they would be the owner's falut. If he/she gave it too big a chunk of food, only to have the food be spit out and rot behind a piece of LR at night. An easier one to pair would actually be a bubble tip but those actually be bigger. Clownfish are a strange type because you might actually spend hundreds on dollars to have a clownfish/anemone pair only to have the clown fish host a powerhead. You could try a hairy mushroom coral. If if gets to big, you could frag it and give to to a friend or lfs for money. But heres the most important info. You MUST let your tank mature AT LEAST 6 months. You need all the good bacteria to evolve within the tank for your invert to survive well.
i really like the idea of having a large anenome and clowns as a centerpiece. and the magnificent anenome is beautiful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasek2k1
Quote:
i'm gonna have a Marineland Emperor 280 wet/dry powerfilter as well as a good quality protien skimmer on a 15 gallon.
Ditch the Emporer. The bio-wheel is going to make nitrates levels too high of levels to keep sensitive inverts, especially anemones. I have an Aquaclear powerfilter and I absolutly love it. My nitrates are always in a sensible range. If you get a protein skimmer, I would suggest adding a sump to your tank and put the skimmer there. I have the CSS65 and the pump is huge in my 15 gallon. And if you get a skimmer, get the CSS65. I will never buy a different brand. The skimmate will make you lose your stomach every time you smell it.
can't really afford a new filter. i suppose i could remove the bio-wheel and put some bio-beads of some type in the media basket if i had to. but i'd rather have an efficient skimmer and do large water changes each week to keep nitrates low. good to hear a good review on the super skimmers. do you have a sump on your 15 gallon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasek2k1
Quote:
would a pair of false perculas, 3 small yellow-tailed damsels, an anenome, and a cleaning crew be overstocked?
Yes. the damsels will have territroy issues and 3 in a 15 WILL become a problem. I would get a pair of clowns, and a blenny (I adore thier personality), and MAYBE a small goby of sort. I might ditch either of the last two if you get an anemone to lower the bio-load. This is all assuming you have the skimmer installed. Two clownfish and an anemone won't be to bad of an idea because if makes the 3 of them the centerpeice of the tank. Theres no damsel of goby swimming around to distract the sybiotic pairing. thats just my idea though.
like i said, i really like this idea. maybe a green mandarinfish or something would be nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasek2k1
One question for you though. What exactly is your form of filtration on the tank currently? It doesn't seem like you have LR and maybe just a lower end filter. I hope you did let you tank cycle somehow for the clown.
currently i just have the emperor on there. and i wouldn't call it a lower end filter by any stretch. no, i don't have live rock. the tank is a week into cycling with an occellaris clownfish that is less than an inch long. i use Seachem Prime to detoxify (ionize) the ammonia while apparently leaving it available for the biological filter to mature. i also use hefty amounts of Cycle. strange, though...i am still barely even getting a reading for ammonia (shows up in test even in ionized form). the test shows in between the first two colors of the color chart (0-.25ppm). and my other type of test which has a chart for reading un-ionized ammonia (the toxic form) shows 0ppm. still nothing for nitrites after 5 days.
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Old 08-14-2005, 01:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
i was thinking about the coralife 20" AQUALIGHT - 50/50 4-TUBE. it's 96 watts total.
I would recommend this fixture

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products.../Itemdy00.aspx

I prefer having 10000K and Actinics. I just like knowing that havng Actinics on 1 hour before and after the 10000K somewhat replicates the dusk/dawn feeling for the fish. But thats just me.

Quote:
i read something that anenomes need 4 watts per gallon. if that was true, it would be adequate, right?
Eh.....theres a whole debate I've been reading lately that WPG mean nothing compared to PAR. I can't really explain PAR because even I'm still trying to learn and understand it. If you get the fixture I recommended, it won't be a problem. If you aquascape you're tank to have slopes, you're anemone will evenutally find a high spot or a low spot that I will like. So even by chane if theres not enough light, it will just find a spot as close to the light as it can get.

Quote:
i really like the idea of having a large anenome and clowns as a centerpiece. and the magnificent anenome is beautiful.
Go to wet web media and RESEARCH, RESEARCH, and RESEARCH. Read other people's experiences with the magnificent before you venture with your own. It is classified under difficult compared to most so, if it were me, I would be wary of buying. If you find one in a lfs, look for one with LOTS of color. If its bleach white and just looks pale, skip it. Its not worth your money. Reason being that when anemones have color, they have zoo-something (i cant even pronounce it to spell it ) to convert light into food. So an anemone with color has a MUCH, MUCH better chance of even having a chance in your tank. And if an anemone is your ONLY invert, size won't be to much of a problem. You won't have to worry about it eating shrimp or the like. Be wary of getting coral with such a large anemone.

Quote:
can't really afford a new filter. i suppose i could remove the bio-wheel and put some bio-beads of some type in the media basket if i had to. but i'd rather have an efficient skimmer and do large water changes each week to keep nitrates low. good to hear a good review on the super skimmers
Well you might be able to ditch the filter. Heres why. Your skimmer will remove any dirty material in the water before they are turn into ammonia and nitrites, then nitrates. The CSS65 should more than be able to fill the job. So any ammonia in the tank, which should be minimal if you have a skimmer, will be filtered by the LR (get alot and vary the sizes and shape) and the nitrates can just be taken out bu WC. If you even save up enough money, turn an aquaclear in a HOB fuge to lowere your nitrates even further.

Quote:
do you have a sump on your 15 gallon?
No I have a wire frame so it wouldn't look to nice. I use the bottom section anyway for my frog's tank anyway.

Quote:
like i said, i really like this idea. maybe a green mandarinfish or something would be nice.
NO MANDY. it won't survive in that tank unless you have an overhead sump with about 80-100 lbs liverock. plus you run the risk of having the mandy swim into the anemone while it is huntng for food. I've had a friend ecperince this in his 75 I think.

Quote:
currently i just have the emperor on there. and i wouldn't call it a lower end filter by any stretch.
I thought you were upgrading to that filter. sorry. its a good investment anyway.

Quote:
i use Seachem Prime to detoxify (ionize) the ammonia while apparently leaving it available for the biological filter to mature. i also use hefty amounts of Cycle. strange, though...i am still barely even getting a reading for ammonia (shows up in test even in ionized form). the test shows in between the first two colors of the color chart (0-.25ppm). and my other type of test which has a chart for reading un-ionized ammonia (the toxic form) shows 0ppm. still nothing for nitrites after 5 days.
If I were you I would take the clown take to the lfs aand ask if they can "baby-sit" for you for the time being. If you can't I would just let the tank cycle naturally. If you can, put some fish food in the tank and let the tank "re-cycle" so you will know every thing is in check.Don't use any additive. It only took about 10-12 days for ny tank to cycle, not to long of a wait. I noticed my 15 gallon cycles faster jsut because its a smaller sized tank. Just let nature take its course. What test kit are you using?
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15 Gallon
2 O. Clownfish
4 Chromis
Coco Worm
Feather Duster
Cleanup Crew
21# LR
20#LS
----------------------------------
Coralife Aqualight
-36W 10000K
-36W Actinic
Coralife Super Skimmer 65
Aquaclear 50 filter
Aquaclear 20 ph
Marineland Visitherm 50W heater
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Old 08-14-2005, 02:41 PM   #5
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you've been a huge help, lasek.

i am using an aquarium pharmaceuticals test kit for ammonia (2 reagents). also tested with a hagen test kit that involves 3 seperate reagents. i find it strange that i've had the same ammonia reading for 4 days now, with no water changes and no nitrite. i guess the little guy just doesn't produce much ammonia.

any idea what signs i should look for as far as ammonia poisoning goes?
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Old 08-14-2005, 07:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
i am using an aquarium pharmaceuticals test kit for ammonia (2 reagents). also tested with a hagen test kit that involves 3 seperate reagents. i find it strange that i've had the same ammonia reading for 4 days now, with no water changes and no nitrite.
AP isn't too bad. Some people say Seachem or Salifert. Salifert might be too expensive for your budget. Invest in a Seachem Marine Basic Test. Probably around $25. You should test alot when your tank is first set up. But once your tank is mature, and conditions are stable, testing is not needed as often. So invest in a good brand in the beginning to avoid losses later and possibly having to spend more money on another kit later.

Like I said AP isn't to bad. Try soaking and rinsing your test tubes in distilled vinegar. then test again- that should get rid of any regants lingering in the tube. You can also bring a test sample to your lfs. They should usually do it free of charge. I dont really know much about Hagen just because only a select few even use Hagen on these forums.

Quote:
i guess the little guy just doesn't produce much ammonia.
If you feed properly, you should not see much of a change since your clown is so small. What are your readings btw?

Quote:
any idea what signs i should look for as far as ammonia poisoning goes?
Ammonia actually burns the gills of the fish. Just look at its breathing rate. Rapid breathing indicates not to ideal of conditions.

Quote:
you've been a huge help
Anytime
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15 Gallon
2 O. Clownfish
4 Chromis
Coco Worm
Feather Duster
Cleanup Crew
21# LR
20#LS
----------------------------------
Coralife Aqualight
-36W 10000K
-36W Actinic
Coralife Super Skimmer 65
Aquaclear 50 filter
Aquaclear 20 ph
Marineland Visitherm 50W heater
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