lots of water changes???

[mr_X]

I disagree completely with the algae theory above. Algae is not something that works better changed out. The more algae you have, the more nutrients it will use, and use is what it does, not store. Think of house plants- they use up the nutrients in the soil and must have fertilizer added for optimum results. You are adding the fertilizer with every fish poop.
Pulling algae out of the tank will only lessen the effectiveness of the algae mass as a whole.

 

[54seaweed]

house plants have a root system that disperses excess nutrients into the soil
cut macro's don't they will only ex-orb so much like a sponge they have no way of releasing or disposing of excess nutrients
if there's a root system I agree with house plant theory
but with cut macro's they will only ex orb so much
but like everything we all look at things in different perspectives and have mixed opinions lets just leave it at that

 

[Gregcoyote]

Now for some simple biology. At least how I was taught. Cells, no matter if they are bacteria or algae absorb about 4 parts nitrogen for every part of phosphorus. These stay locked up in the cell until the cell dies and re-releases these organics, except for some nitrogen which is released as gas. As long as the plant or organism is intact these elements remain locked up in the creatures cells. Growing algae and harvesting it is one of natures basic techniques for clearing organics, in ponds or the ocean, if the algae is removed, organics follow along with it. It is a fairly slow process and is best used to maintain the tank rather than solve a immediate problem. Water exchanges and carbon dosing are the best cures for rapid reductions IMO.

And this effect is why carbon dosing reduces nitrates four times as fast as it does phosphates.

 

[mr_X]

Then how do you explain algae growth? What makes this happen? Doesn't algae use nutrients to grow?

 

[dmolavi]

The fish keep poopin', the algae keeps growin'...

 

[mr_X]

If your theory is correct, adding a large amount of macroalgae to the system would be like adding a massive amount of nutrients, which just isn't the case, unless of course it's dead and decomposing.

 

[Gregcoyote]

I disagree completely with the algae theory above. Algae is not something that works better changed out. The more algae you have, the more nutrients it will use, and use is what it does, not store. Think of house plants- they use up the nutrients in the soil and must have fertilizer added for optimum results. You are adding the fertilizer with every fish poop.
Pulling algae out of the tank will only lessen the effectiveness of the algae mass as a whole.

I agree, except nitrogen and phosphorus are used to build the organisms cellular structure, it doesn't provide energy or get used up in respiration. These elements remain bound in the cellular walls with exception of turning some nitrates into nitrogen gas. It only broadly releases these elements when the organism dies and decomposes.

 

[54seaweed]

Beyond the Refugium: A Macroalgae Primer by Sarah Lardizabal - Reefkeeping.com

 

[Gregcoyote]

Good discussion, but I read this and don't see how it supports your position towards beneficial algae uses.

Quote from additional sources;

Both iron fertilization and ocean nourishment are techniques that boost the primary production of algae in the ocean, which consumes massive amounts of nutrients and CO2. It is this same consumption of nutrients that algae perform in an aquarium or pond.

An algae scrubber filters water by moving water rapidly over a rough, highly illuminated surface, which causes algae to start growing in large amounts. As the algae grow, they consume nutrients such as nitrate, phosphate, nitrite, ammonia, ammonium and even metals such as copper from the water.[2] These nutrients are normally a problem in aquariums and ponds because they cause nuisance algae to grow, and also because they cause sickness and/or other problems in aquarium fish, invertebrates and corals.[3] An algae scrubber allows algae to grow, but the algae grow inside the filter instead of in the aquarium or pond. This removes excess nutrients (scrubs the water), diminishing nuisance algae in the aquarium or pond . Nuisance algae in the aquarium or pond are not to be confused with the desired algae in the algae scrubber filter itself. The algae that grow in the algae scrubber can then be removed, or fed back to the livestock.

Algae scrubbers are used in both saltwater and freshwater, and remove nuisance algae of multiple types: cyano or slime, bubble, hair, Chaetomorpha, Caulerpa, and film algae, as well as dinoflagellates and Aiptasia.

Also: I started 25 years ago using this guys knowledge, Dr. Walter Addy, it's working today:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/the-dynamic-aquarium-algae-turf-scrubbing-199323.html

 

[navaljonf]

I grow macro in my tank and pull some out almost weekly...it adds to the look of the tank too

 

[mr_X]

G The algae that grow in the algae scrubber can then be removed, or fed back to the livestock.

Algae scrubbers are used in both saltwater and freshwater, and remove nuisance algae of multiple types: cyano or slime, bubble, hair, Chaetomorpha, Caulerpa, and film algae, as well as dinoflagellates and Aiptasia.

Also: I started 25 years ago using this guys knowledge, Dr. Walter Addy, it's working today:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/the-dynamic-aquarium-algae-turf-scrubbing-199323.html

So, this article says you don't have to remove it. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't feeding it back to the fish blow the "pruning to remove nutrients" idea out of the water?

 

[Fresh2o]

So, this article says you don't have to remove it. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't feeding it back to the fish blow the "pruning to remove nutrients" idea out of the water?

I believe it depends on if feeding it back to the fish is in addition to what they are normally being fed or if it replaces some or most of it. If it is in addition to the normal feeding regime, then I think you are correct with the "nutrients staying in the system" idea.

 

[navaljonf]

So, this article says you don't have to remove it. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't feeding it back to the fish blow the "pruning to remove nutrients" idea out of the water?

I was thinking the same thing. The only benefit I can understand is free food.

 

[Gregcoyote]

I think the article said that you could refeed some of the algae. But the main point was using it for export. While the growing algae keeps the DOCs locked up, you have to prune it to remove the DOCs permanently. Anything you recycle in the tank stays in the tank, but every time I throw out 5 pounds of algae, I am removing those nutrients from the water permanently.

You can remove DOC's by;

Water exchanges,
Physical removal like protein skimming,
Chemical binding agents like GFO,
or organic agents like algae and the live bacteria in rock.

Just how I do it...