Month old tank Please help

[Susie Q]

Heres a breif history on me and clown fish. My 3yr old is Nemo crazy. I have had fwts for about 6yrs and a turtle tank for 3yrs before that. but never had time for a swt. Recently due to illness, I'm no longer able to work so my husband decided to surprise me with a swt. We were told (at the LPS) the only testing equptment was a hydometer and that if we cycled the tank with live sand for 24 hrs that we could go ahead and add 4 fish (2 small clowns, a pta, blue/yellow tailed damsel, and a neon damsel) the next day. Safe to say this was disasterous. with in 48 hr both CF were dead. I called the LPS and was told they would give a discount on the next CF I got. So two weeks later I went back and got another CF and a coral banded shrimp. Well I went from 2 damsels, a CF, a pta and a CBS to One damsel and a cbs. I've done some research and know that I was played the fool and plan to get some test strips today. I have a few questions.

1. What are the Prams. I need for clown fish?
2. Are CBS really agressive enough to kill fish the same size and bigger than they are?
3. The last cf had white stuff around its mouth is that an illness?


You proubly think I'm terrible but I do need help.

 

[Susie Q]

Forgot to add

The white stuff showed up on it less than 24 hr after we got it.

 

[cmor1701d]

DO NOT GET test strips. Get quality testing kits for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate to begin with. You will also want a phosphate test kit.
DO NOT go back to that lfs othe than to get your money back. They gave you terrible advice.

Water parameters for a salt water tank (fish only) shold be pH of 8.2 - 8.3 (tested at the same time each day, just before lights out); ammonia of 0, nitritites of 0, nitrates below 40 and phosphate of of 0 (or below .03). Salifert and LaMotte are probably the best test kits you can get and they are pricey. SeaChem makes a multi-test kit that is good to start with.

Tell us how big your tank is and list all equipment (manufacturer and model) that you currently have. Also tell us what lighting you have.

You need to properly cycle a tank and that could take 4 weeks or more. Please go to the articles section and read up on the fishless cycle.

Once cycled you can start adding fish SLOWLY, like one (maybe 2) new fish per month.

CBS will generally not kill a fish. Other shrimp, yes.

The white stuff around the mouth could be a fungus or bacterial infection. Did you see any aggression between any of the fish?

 

[roka64]

Welcome to the site. I would find another LFS. I generally purchase my dry goods online, since they are waaaaay less expensive than the LFS. I sounds like your fish died due to poor acclimation and putting them in a highly toxic tank (don't feel too bad, you didn't know any better and your LFS led you astray). Like Cmor said, a SW tank needs to be properly cycled. Once your cycle starts, ammonia should spike and drop while nitrItes start to spike (both of these are highly toxic to your critters), after the nitrItes spike, they should start going down as your nitrAtes will start to rise. When you have no ammonia or nitrItes do a large PWC to reduce your nitrAtes and you will be ready to add fish. Again, don't be too hard on yourself, at least you came to the right place and now we can help you enjoy your tank. The only thing we ask in return is lots of pictures! So ask away.....

 

[Susie Q]

OK Cmor I have an 18 gal (24in L x 12in W x 16in T) flat back hexagon tank with glass hood and 60hz 50wt lighting all from Marineland. Filtration 20lbs live sand, Whisper internal powerfilter 10-30, and a biopro sk-40 air driven protein skimmer good for up to 70 gal tank.


We didn't see any aggression, but after we added the last cf and the cbs the neon damsel's (one of the origional 4 which was doing great) tail was ripped to shreds and when it died the cbs was eating it and the cf too. Is that Normal for them to do that?

 

[Susie Q]

We live in a very rural area and the only other fs is 2 1/2 hours away would a portable airrator work in getting them home before acclimating them or would it be better to order the cf on line? What is the best way to acclimation them. With FW I always just floated for 20-30 min and net and release. Is this the same with SWF? Or is there a better way?

I'll post pics as soon as I get everything fixed. Now all you would see is an empty tank filled with saltwater and fake coral.

 

[marchmaxima]

Hi Susie. Here's a good article about three different acclimitisation methods. Personally I use the drip method.

Acclimating Tropical Fish to Your Fish Tank

I also don't float the bag, just in case contaminates found their way onto it. It is always possible that the person at the LFS who handled the bag has hand cream, or has grubby hands. Also, what if the LFS uses some sort of spray around the place and it got on the bag. I realise I'm paranoid, but it is for good reason.

and here is a thread from another forum that has a step-by-step.

www.fishforum.com.au |Aquariums|Discus|ADA|Fish|:: View topic - Acclimatisation Procedure

Mods, if this posting a link to another forum is not allowed, I'm sorry and please feel free to remove it. I just haven't found anything such as this in ours.

 

[saywill]

I would bring all the dead fish back to the store and ask for my money back. Good thing you found this website!

 

[melosu58]

IMO you need to start over and cycle the tank. The fish are totally stressed out. Read in the article section about the Fishless cycle. Also your LFS has no clue. Check with the folks here first.

 

[cmor1701d]

Fish survive overnight shipping so a 2 hour ride is no problem. I agree that you need to slow down, cycle the tank and basically start this from the beginning. Orderign online may be a better option for you based on your lfs.

An 18 gallon tank is much harder to maintain than a 30 or larger. You should only keep a couple of fish in a tank that size. A pair of clowns would be fully stocked IMO. If you decide on going a different way you should consider adding only 1 fish at a time and then waiting 3-4 weeks before adding another one.

I'm not sure what a pta is. If it's an anemone, skip it. Your tank is too small, too immature and does not have enough light for one to survive.

Take some time to plan out what you want to do and come back to let us know your plan. Think and research the needs of the fish you would like to have and remember you are limited to only a couple of fish. SW holds much less oxygen than FW. The gas exchange of CO2 to OS takes place at the surface of the water, so you want to see the surface rippling, not flat.

 

[Susie Q]

All I want is one or two clowns really. So thanks. the surviving Damsel and CBS are leaving to an ebstashised tank in va tomarrow and I'm starting from scrach.
And PTA is a pink tipped anemone.

 

[pitt420dude]

Susie, a few months on AA and you may find yourself thinking you know more than your LFS employees.

It sounds to me like you got fish in that tank WAY too early. Probably the hardest thing about being an aquarist is patience. Unfortunately, it is most needed at the time when it is hardest to have (when you first get your tank and a month or two thereafter).

For now my advice is to read read read. Carpenters say measure twice cut once. Well a good rule for aquarists is to read twice buy once! It'll save you lots of money.

As for guilt, you really did nothing wrong. Your LFS is to blame IMO. By posting here and finding this site, you're already on the right track. The proof is in the pudding, look at these members absolutely GORGEOUS tanks and you see they know what they're talking about.

As a freshie, and a fairly broke one at that, SW scares me. I hear tons of stories like yours and simply can't afford it.

Get that tank cycled and those params in order and you can feel great about adding fish to it, until then, read read read and have patience. Good luck!

 

[marchmaxima]

I went thought the same dramas with a FW setup, and after countless visits to LFSs and getting questionable and contradicting advice. Finally I found this site and the folks here have helped me to the right path.

Keep posting your questions and follow the advice you get. And keep us all in the loop.

 

[Dennis210]

Hi and welcome to the addictive hobby of marine fish and reef keeping.

First off let's talk cycle. Fish wastes, uneaten food, detritus in tank all turn into either Ammonium or Ammonia. This is incorporated (eaten) by bacteria and changed (pooped) into nitrite. This is yet again incorporated by another bacteria and changed (pooped) into nitrate. Nitrate is then incorporated by yet another bacteria and changed (pooped) into nitrogen and oxygen. NH3 > NO2 > NO3 > N & O2. This is rather over simplified but it will paint a better picture.

When a new tank is started there is actually a pretty sterile environment.
We introduce some kind of fish food (small amount) and the first bacterial populations begin to grow. They overpopulate based on abundance of there food source (ammonia). As they stabilize in growth their wastes (nitrites) are food for another group of bacteria which begin to overpopulate. This new group of bacteria goes through yet another population explosion feeding on nitrites and leaving nitrates. If you have a deep sand bed or plenty of live rock yrt another bacteria will form deep in the rocks and under the sand where there is little oxygen and utilize the O2 off the NO3 to live. In brief this is the nitrogen cycle and in most systems it will take 28 to 35 days to establish.

Now your tank will go through other chemical and algal cycles to balance out in about 100 days. Fish should never be added into a new system until first nitrogen cycle is complete. Use test kits and watch for ammonia spike, then nitrite spike then nitrate spike. After first month it's time for water changes to begin so excess nitrate can be exported out of system.
Macro algae and or live rock can aid this alot. Point being no fish ever before about day 36 - 40. Then only ONE or TWO small ones. At this time you may also introduce a clean up or janitorial crew.

Test kits are a must, never add to a tank what you don't test for.

 

[cmor1701d]

Susie, you came to the right place for advice. Get that tank cycled properly and then add your clowns. You should do fine as long as you do regular water changes and stay on top of the water params.

Good luck.