New Italian Aqaurium Law

[dianeww]

I had a neighbor who had a new dog every 6 weeks, enclosed in a little tiny pen, they were not pets, they were food to these people

8O

 

[Brenden]

Jasonanatal: I was thinking of a word other than fishy. I would rather dig ditches. I am tired of this network stuff. I retired 3 years ago and a headhunter got me back into it this year. Maybe I will open a fish store soon

 

[HoopsGuru]

I'm willing to bet not one of us here is a optical physicist, so no one can really be sure how curved glass affects fishes. Curved glass may have no effect on fish. However it may, indeed, distort light in such a way to visually irritate fish. This irritation may be minor or more involved.

Absolutely correct, but it also doesn't require one. Ignoring the discussion itself, the likelihood of this experiment existing just isn't very great. If you consider what would be necessary, a long term experiment lasting a particular fish's lifespan (often 10 years or so) would have to be completed showing a correlation between glass aquariums and bowfront aquariums.....not to mention it would have to be replicated many times. The idea that any government or private party would fund this is unlikely (not impossible, just unlikely). For anyone involved in the hobby, it is apparent how difficult is to get anything funded, i.e. a much simpler experiment on whether deep sand substrates fail over time, etc.

The distortion that the curved glass gives off is subjective to distance. Meaning, the fish, corals, rock, etc are close to the glass making the distortion very minor to the distortion they recieve by looking outward. Think of it similar to a magnifying glass. When you try to look at things in the distance it feels quite nausiating.

I understand and agree with your idea. However, it still is approaching the matter from the perspective of human vision. As I mentioned earlier, many if not most fish have eyes that are adapted to see color and shapes, but their brains lack the analysis of actual objects. I also disagree that it is similar to a magnifying glass. Magnifying glass have a 360° curvature (or spherical/plano-convex) lens to focus light on a point. A bowfront aquarium would be more comparable to that of an windshield in its curvature design and it is comparably minimal.

Having just been to the Baltimore Aquarium, the main tank in the center is essentially a huge cylinder with what I would judge as more curved than any bowfront aquarium on the market. With the back of the tank at about 15' of visual depth, there is little if any noticeable distortion and it should be no different from the "normal" vision in the tank out.

 

[runway1]

If you consider what would be necessary, a long term experiment lasting a particular fish's lifespan (often 10 years or so) would have to be completed showing a correlation between glass aquariums and bowfront aquariums.....not to mention it would have to be replicated many times.

Just a note, actually not. I design experiments often, although not in this discipline, I'm an aerospace engineer. What you would do is simply use thousands of subjects, therefore deriving thousands of data points. Also, I'm sure they could find fish with far shorter lifespans. And....as for cost....I've run two day experiments that would cost far more than a bunch of guppies in an aquarium being whatched and charted by a bunch of grad students for free. Again, not saying it happened, just offering some info.

A bowfront aquarium would be more comparable to that of an windshield in its curvature design and it is comparably minimal.

Again, no offense but I have to correct. Auto glass is optically far higher quality than acrylic and certainly higher quality than that greenish glass stuff they make tanks from (I have one of those )

aving just been to the Baltimore Aquarium, the main tank in the center is essentially a huge cylinder with what I would judge as more curved than any bowfront aquarium on the market. With the back of the tank at about 15' of visual depth, there is little if any noticeable distortion and it should be no different from the "normal" vision in the tank out.

That doesn't make sense. If a home bow front is say....150 gal it would certainly have a smaller radius than the huge 15 footer you mention, right? Maybe I missed something. :?

Anyhow between the outlawing of feeders in a crowded tank, goldfish in a crowded tank, dogs/cats in a display window, cropping of dogs ears, mandatory walking - it's not a stretch to entertain this possibility

 

[greenmaji]

This reminds me of the shark tank at the Shedd aquarium in Chicago.. enormus and all curved.. lol
I think the original post was a request for help finding this study and the discusion just went on from there..

 

[HoopsGuru]

[quote="runway1]Just a note, actually not. I design experiments often, although not in this discipline, I'm an aerospace engineer. What you would do is simply use thousands of subjects, therefore deriving thousands of data points. Also, I'm sure they could find fish with far shorter lifespans. And....as for cost....I've run two day experiments that would cost far more than a bunch of guppies in an aquarium being whatched and charted by a bunch of grad students for free. Again, not saying it happened, just offering some info. [/quote]
You can't simply use thousands of subjects for data points, because with the great variables that exist from one tank to another it would be tough to derive clear enough data that proves bowfront tanks reduce lifespans. I would also hope that the existence of an entire tank design would not hinge on a test run on guppies only.....which can also live up to 5 years. I don't dispute your 2 day experiments obviously, but if you ask the "experts" of the hobby why little concrete data is available on most subjects the answer is almost always time and money.

Again, no offense but I have to correct. Auto glass is optically far higher quality than acrylic and certainly higher quality than that greenish glass stuff they make tanks from

We're not talking about the same thing. I didn't mention clarity, but rather the shape of the curvature of the "lens". A magnifying glass is shaped essentially as if you would cut the top off of a sphere. It refracts the light entering the lens and focuses on a single point (hence why you can use them to concentrate sunlight on a single spot and generate enough heat to start a fire). This is not the shape of bowfront tank....it is a simple sheet of glass "bowed" similar to that of a windshield.

Regardless, the discussion brought up seems to be less about clarity and more about the bowed glass causing stress. If clarity would be a consideration, then I would imagine this could only be a partial ban as Starphire glass available for aquariums is excellent clarity and acrylic is nearly 100% transparent as well.

Personally, I think the idea is interesting and thought provoking even though I don't believe it to be probable. With the amount of other issues that easily kill large quantities of livestock (collecting, shipping, etc.), I don't think anyone would be focusing first on bowfront aquariums.