New Tank and I have some questions

[sgonzal6]

Good Afternoon Fellow Tankers,
My amazing girlfriend got a sweet tank, sump, and light set for my birthday.
The tank is 125 gallons with a CYP194 sump and a Odyessa lighting system that has 3 HQIs, 4 T5s, and LED moon lighting.
We subsequently filled the tank with filtered water. We picked up an RV water filter after deciding that RO water was a little out of our price range.
We mixed the salt filtered water and then went to our local marine fish store and picked up 80 lbs of live sand, 40 lbs of live rock from Fiji, and 40 lbs of base rock. We allowed the tank to cycle for 8 days adding Stability every night.

I took a sample of my water to the store last night and received the following reading:
pH 8
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Salinity 1.026
Temp 80 (I know it was a little high so I turned down the temp)
The sales guy, who I trust, gave me the ok to buy fish and coral.

I picked up one large portion of coral and two frags and two clowns.

We got home and acclimated the clowns per the directions from the sales guy. We placed the clowns in a bowl with a bit of original water and started a syphon and allowed the bowl to fill by dropping our tank water in the bowl slowly. We got home arranged the coral, which did cause a bit of sand agitation. Which concerned us due to the fact that the clowns were in the tank.
But the sand cleared fast enough and the clowns seemed happy swimming around a bit but mostly hanging out in the corner. We chalked it up to agitation with the move.

I set the T5s to turn on 1 hour before my HQIs and my HQIs to turn on 30 minutes before dawn and stay on for 8 hours. Per the directions of the sales guy.

This morning we awoke to a nicely lit tank and the corals look great, but the clown fish were just hanging out under one of the rocks and won't seem to leave. Now I looked around online a bit and I found discussions about clowns hosting corners and other areas and that seemed to be my case. But we attempted to feed them. I admit that I am not 100% sure how to feed them. We purchased some flakes from the shop. They are rather large so I crushed them in 4s. I dropped one flake (in 4s) into the tank with no succes or notice from the clowns.
I used a turkey baster to remove the unnoticed flakes 3 minutes later per the directions on the package. I then attempted to drop the flakes closer to the rock that they are hiding area that the clowns seem to be in with still no success. I also removed the uneaten flakes. I have since tried this now three times.
We also thought that they just might not like the HQIs but they have since gone off and still they just hang out under the rock with little movement out.

My concern returned as I noticed a lack of swimming and what I perceive as rapid gill movement. I admit that I do not have a point of reference and may just be letting my emotions get the best of me.
These are the first fish that I have ever attempted to take care of and I don't want to let them down.
I re-tested the water and got these reading:
pH 8.2
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Temp of 78
Any insight would be very helpful and I may just need a little reassurance.

What is the best way to feed hiding clown fish?
Is this normal clown behavior?
Any other recommendations about my current set up?

Thank you

SMG

 

[Tmyboy]

ok....first of all. Happy BDay!

I know this is after the fact but dont buy your LR from a petstore anymore! unless you have money falling out your rectum. and it defintely sounds like you might....but even then. use Craigslist or something. I know this hobby can be REALLY expensive and if you can get by with just the 80lbs of rock....def do it, but you should know that the standard recommendation is 1 to 1.5 lbs per gallon of water. I think 1.5 is a bit excessive tbh...I have a 75g and have 100lbs of LR. maybe get 150 total when you get more funds down the road. If you keep the bioload down low and the rock you have now is doing the job as far as filtration goes, no rush on the additonal rock. Just FYI....

I'm far from a Pro but 8 days is really boderline for a brand spanking new tank. Are you sure the tank spiked? Did you test everyday to keep a log and confirm that it spiked? the ammonia that is. If it did spike, how long ago did it happen?

DO you have a skimmer? If yes..what kind? If you don't, u defintely need to get one......if you're gonna house fish AND corals. I've heard of ppl doing without one for a FOWLR setup but even then, why make things hard on yourself? A skimmer will do a LOT to keep your water nice and clean. You'll be thankful you did. Lastly...oversize the skimmer rating.


How much flow do you have? Do you have a PH aimed at the sufrace of the water to agitate and promote O2 exchange. I always did for at least a month or 2 after it cycles.

What tyoe of corals did you get? I honestly think its waaaaaaaaaaaaay to soon for the corals. 8 days? They may be ok, maybe. Keep a close eye on them.

I have a pair of clowns and obviously rapid gill movement is not normal. COuld be from stress...could be from low O2, but they'll usually be up at the surface if it was a low O2 problem. It could be that the tank is not mature enuf for them?! True they do usually choose a spot but not immediately. At least not that I've evern seen.....
it usually takes them a while to make themselves at home.

Mine sleep funny (in my torch) but that's about it.

Maybe throw a few answers up there and ill check back in 1 hour. I hope we can help you!

Hang in there....it's a big learning curve!!!

 

[sgonzal6]

Unfortunately I did not keep track of any of the levels prior to introducing the fish. I was unaware that I should be doing this and none of the people at the various stores that I talked to mentioned it. So I cannot confirm nor deny that the spike occurred or when it did.
I definitely will be sourcing my live rock from other places but I liked the pieces that I got and was will to spend a little more and hand pick. And I was under the impression that it is usually 1lb per gallon; should I adjust for 1.5lbs per gallon?

I do have a skimmer. It is inside the sump. I am totally unfamiliar with this situation of the set up. But we removed the biobale per recommendation of multiple employees. My CYP194 water returns from the overflow, up through the protein skimmer, through a filter (which normally would have a biobale) and then return to the tank. Per the recommendations of the set up video the water flow is approximately 1in from the base of the protein skimmer.
I have two Koralia Evolution with a flow rate 1400 gph at each end of the tank. They are about half way down and pointed up to the surface per recommendation of the store that I bought the fish and coral at.
I have a Rio pump as the intake and another that does not have a brand name as the return pump. There is a control valve for the return that is set pretty low; with the return chamber just a little below 1/3 full (also per recommendation of the video). I could adjust the overflow box to intake more water and turn up the return pump. Not sure if I need to/want to...

I posted pictures of the coral that I got. There are two buttons and then a taller one. I do not recall these names sorry.
Should I attempt to feed them again? If so how?
Thanks!!!

SMG

 

[Leighton79]

Hi,

So your other half buys all that stuff, yet RO water is out of your price range?

Odd.

I would personally never ever put anything other than RO water in my tanks, if you have a phosphate test do one, if not get one.

Even minimal phosphates will do 2 things, fuel nuisance algaes and stunt, if not completely stop coral growth. Get some phosphate remover on the go, I like the reef scientific variety, but there's also rowaphos, phosban and the such.

 

[sgonzal6]

Hi,

So your other half buys all that stuff, yet RO water is out of your price range?

Odd.

I would personally never ever put anything other than RO water in my tanks, if you have a phosphate test do one, if not get one.

She got a good deal on the tank; far less than it would have cost us to set they system up brand new.
Not sure what the difference is now. RO water is not in the tank now and I will look into replacing our current water with RO as we do water changes.

Would phosphates in the water account for the strange behavior of the fish?

I will look into a phosphate test. Thank you for the recommendation.

 

[sgonzal6]

Also the live rock was cured at the store...
If that makes a difference.

 

[Leighton79]

Not that I'm aware of, sounds like ammonia poisoning to me, do an ammonia test now, I'm uncomfortable with 8 days cycle on a tank with only 33% minimum recommend live rock.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

How much is RO water where you are?

It's £2 per 25 litres where I buy it, which as far as I'm aware makes it the cheapest purchasable liquid there is.

Is it a 125G tank? That would have cost what £50 in water?

Worth every penny in my humble opinion.

Mind you I put tap water in my first tank, so you learn from your mistakes.

Have you seen any diatoms yet? They typically show up at the end of the cycle as they use nitrates and silicates for fuel. When the fuel is burnt off, the diatoms die.

 

[Tmyboy]

She got a good deal on the tank; far less than it would have cost us to set they system up brand new.
Not sure what the difference is now. RO water is not in the tank now and I will look into replacing our current water with RO as we do water changes.

Would phosphates in the water account for the strange behavior of the fish?

I will look into a phosphate test. Thank you for the recommendation.

no sir.....while some phosphates can/do contribute to algae outbreaks.....that wouldn't cause the clown to be acting funny. The corals wont like it and they might retract. Once you get even a little experience, you'll be able to tell how the coral is feeling by how it looks. Most of the time anyway.

I have to admit that I'm a bit shocked that nobody at the LFS gave you any information or backround of how to properly cycle a tank BEFORE selling you livestock. Tracking the numbers is all part of it and a good LFS will tell you and even inform you how to do so. Not all are bad but the one that sold you all that equipment and then sold you live stock 8 days later.......might be questionable in my book. Did they ask for a water sample? Even so....

Another important thing is to understand what equipment you have and HOW IT WORKS. I know you're trying and that's awesome but you need to read all about your sump/how it works/why it works/what type of skimmer do you have/whats it rated for aka gallons?!
All of this information is avaiable and you need to read read read if you want to be successful at this hobby.

at this point, you're going to have to do it on the fly since you already have live stock that you're responsible for. You owe it to that live stock to learn how you need to take care of them.

Please let me know what type of skimmer you have and name brand. They're right about the bioballs...i dont run any. Just a fuge with some cheato and rubble live rock in the middle chamber and that's worked well for me up till this point.

How are you checking salinity? Hyrdometer or refractometer? I was trusting my hydro when i first started in this hobby and was shcoked my my LFS told me my water was 1.031! I bought a refract for $29 off ebay and wont use those again. word to wise.....dont fully trust those.

Where are those pics?? Please take a pic of your tank and your sump setup so we can go through this. I have to say that your explanation is a bit confusing so a pic would probably work better.

We'll figure it out.

 

[sgonzal6]

Not that I'm aware of, sounds like ammonia poisoning to me, do an ammonia test now, I'm uncomfortable with 8 days cycle on a tank with only 33% minimum recommend live rock.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

The store did a ammonia test yesterday which was 0. Then I did one today and it was also 0.

RO is a little more here and would have cost a little more than we were willing to spend. We did buy a filter that attached to a hose that we used to fill the tank. But I will consider this for next time I fill a tank.

I have not noticed any diatoms. Where should I look for them?

 

[Leighton79]

You can't miss them sir, they are rust coloured and will cover everything in your tank, rock, glass and sand.

 

[Leighton79]

By the way have you ever had a reading on ammonia and nitrite?

 

[sgonzal6]

Well then I do not think the diatoms occurred.

They told me how to cycle but they made it seem like a cycle should be over in about a week.

There are pictures of the sump set up posted. In my albums. I have 2 folders.
Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - sgonzal6's Albums

I checked the salinity with a hydrometer that I use to brew beer and it was confirmed by the store when they used a refractometer.

 

[sgonzal6]

By the way have you ever had a reading on ammonia and nitrite?

Per my first post these were my reading yesterday:
From the store:
pH 8
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Salinity 1.026
Temp 80 (I know it was a little high so I turned down the temp)

This morning at home using a API (aquarium pharmaceuticals) Saltwater Master Test Kit for pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels:
pH 8.2
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Temp of 78

 

[sgonzal6]

P.S. a moderator has to review the post that included a link to my album.
But you can find a picture of the sump in my albums.
Thanks

 

[Tmyboy]

By the way have you ever had a reading on ammonia and nitrite?

He didn't know to document so he doesnt know if he had a spike or not n

And trust me....he's right when he says u can't miss diatoms. Pain in the ***.

I honestly don't think ur tank is cycled yet brother.....it's very possible.

How long did u acclimate for?

 

[Leighton79]

Is the skimmer producing any waste?

And in pic 3 in your other album is the zoo's or a goniopora? I would hope zoo's but they do look similar and the pic is a little blurry.

I hope it's not goniopora anyway.

 

[Tmyboy]

Is the skimmer producing any waste?

And in pic 3 in your other album is the zoo's or a goniopora? I would hope zoo's but they do look similar and the pic is a little blurry.

I hope it's not goniopora anyway.

Why do u hope that?
I don't have those but i luv my alveapora! Which is very similar.

 

[Tmyboy]

Why do u hope that?
I don't have those but i luv my alveapora! Which is very similar.

Other than the fact thats its too early for corals in general.

But I think we can help him.

 

[Leighton79]

I like how they look, but as far as I've ever been able to establish they require water far more pristine than will be achievable by a newbie that doesn't know if his tank has cycled. (no offence intended)

 

[sgonzal6]

None taken.
The protein skimmer does have a little bit of white colored waste in it.
I emptied it right before I picked up my fish.
How long does it take to re-fill so to speak?

Acclimate what? The tank had salt water and live rock in it for 8 days in it before I took the sample. We added Stability each day for those 8 days.

So if the tank has not cycled yet why I am getting zero reading on the test on two separate days?

If the tank is indeed not cycled which it appears as not what is my next step.

Thanks