Nitrate help...I'm about to cry!!!

[paulk28]

It could be as simple as your new skimmer isn't doin it's job yet you said your not getting any foam and coupled with new sand could be your problem I'd keep doing water changes maybe 25% a week till it levels out


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[PB_Smith]

Pb : I would agree with you completely except for the fact that theres no ammonia. Theres too much decomposing biological matter in the tank creating the huge nitrate spike. The bio balls have nothing to do with decreasing the nitrate levels so thay doesnt really make sense either.

My best thought at rhe nutrient source atm is the sand. Where did you get the sand from that you put in your refugium?

sorry Mebbid, but your incorrect.
If the OP is suddenly noticing elevated nitrate levels AFTER replacing the bio media in the sump, the only logical assumption to make is that days earlier there were corresponding spikes in ammonia and nitrite respectively.
Her testing zero ammonia & nitrite NOW tells us nothing about what it was last week, BUT the elevated and climbing nitrate levels do.

That is also the ONLY reason I advise against cleaning the canister at this time, it would possibly make matters worse.
Her system, if the live rocks pictured are the only bio-media in the sump, is very, very under filtered in regards to biological bacteria and the available surface area for it to colonize. The bio-balls, no matter how inefficient, provided much more surface area than the rock in there now.
True, by virtue of their design, bio-balls don't afford much in the way of de-nitrification, but their removal I guarantee is the primary source for this upheaval.
It is that decrease in available surface area in the filter sump that is/will give her issues until a better bio-media is employed and the colonies are allowed to get back up to full strength.

remove/reduce biological filtering capacity=
spikes in ammonia then nitrite=
death and disintegration of corals/inverts=
even more ammonia being produced=
increasing nitrate levels=
more stress and dying corals=
ever worsening water quality


I don't know, the cause and effect progression seems pretty clear to me.

 

[paulk28]

Actually I agree canister should be cleaned if her skimmer is pulling protein out it will build up in the canister causing a rise in nitrates


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[paulk28]

Isn't pulling *


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Mattyfelts]

in respect to PB, would we not see a enormous amount of ammonia and nitrite though if your theory is correct? if the majority of the biological filtration is removed, this leaves very little nitrifiing bacteria. In turn we would see the cycling process(if what you said is correct) and there would be a large amount of ammonia (well say 80ppm) thne nitrite, then nitrate. All of this would be over a few days to weeks. So by saying that you take out the biological filtration and then nitrate is the only thing that spikes to that magnitude honestly doesnt make much sense.

Either way removing the biological filteration has little affect on NITRATES. Bio filtration does not even touch nitrates. By all this waste being converted to nitrates actually shows that there is working bio filtration and that its doing its job (if the ammonia and nitrite are zero).

My advice is some water changes to knock those levels down. Clean out the canister if thats what is causing the problem. Also, look around the tank to see if anything else could be causing this escalation such as fish, lots of inverts, etc.

 

[Mebbid]

Discounting any denitrification from various sources, an 80ppm of nitrate requires over 20ppm of ammonia as a precursor. That's an obscene amount of ammonia to kickstart a mini cycle. Counting that on top of the fact that live rock holds a ton of beneficial bacteria as well as the coping ability of beneficial bacteria to speed up metabolism and handle a sudden increase of nutrients, it doesn't sound entirely feasible.

I would point more at the addition of the sand in the sump at the moment. If the OP had taken the substrate from the display tank and moved it into the sump it would have precipitated a huge release of nutrients.

 

[Mattyfelts]

Discounting any denitrification from various sources, an 80ppm of nitrate requires over 20ppm of ammonia as a precursor. That's an obscene amount of ammonia to kickstart a mini cycle. Counting that on top of the fact that live rock holds a ton of beneficial bacteria as well as the coping ability of beneficial bacteria to speed up metabolism and handle a sudden increase of nutrients, it doesn't sound entirely feasible.

I would point more at the addition of the sand in the sump at the moment. If the OP had taken the substrate from the display tank and moved it into the sump it would have precipitated a huge release of nutrients.

im laughing to myself because at almost the same time we posted something pretty similar haha!

 

[Sniperhank]

How long did you have the corals and what kind of lighting do you have? All but one if those guys is toast. That is where the nitrates are coming from. The skimmer stopped skimming because it is new and still breaking in, as it can take weeks to properly function.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[paulk28]

Exactly my thoughts


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[JonathanG]

Also you said you had the skimmer wide open? You need to restrict the flow somewhat to get the foam up to the correct levels. That is why the skimate is collecting in the neck and not in the cup.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[PB_Smith]

hmm, good points.
My thought was that the live rock was enough to break down the waste, yet not enough to prevent spikes and the spikes are what may have been the initial stressor for the corals. That was my thought.

and the 80 ppm of nitrate isn't what got my attention considering it does accumulate over time, it was the doubling of the levels in a day or two that I took notice of and indicates some major issues going on and for it to rise that fast would indicate that ammonia and nitrite were also probably elevated, but harder to detect or "catch".

I guess we can all just agree is sounds like multiple things were done within a really short period of time and it has resulted in a mess.
Another cautionary tale of why it is important to take things slow and methodical when making major changes.

 

[bleu]

Wow... Took me a day to take all of it in. Like to thank everyone for their comments & replies. Last wk when u tested nitrates & ammonia were both at zero. As for cleaning out my canister I did that before you guys had began posting your reply. It was filthy look like mud water :-(. I know I was definitely overfeeding I scaled-back on that. I will test the nitrate again today before I do 25% what a change. Didn't want to do water changes back to back one day after the other, thought it would stress the life in my tank. The small amount of lr is only in that small sump I have. In my display I have about 67/70 lbs of lr. The tank is not finalized yet, it's still a work in progress. I am not satisfied w/ my aquascape yet

 

[bleu]

Here what I'm lookin like

 

[bleu]

Sorry. I'm hooked on phonics with this form lol

Here r the pics

 

[bleu]

Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[54seaweed]

if your nitrates are 80 like im reading , i would say big water changes
to get it to a safe level ,
you may need to do several over the next week once you get it down to a safe level
it's time to figure out what caused the spike over feeding ect, it could also be in the water you use is it tap if so thats a big no no, ro/di have you ever tested the water you are adding to the tank that could be the source

 

[bleu]

Alright I took my wanted to be tested at the lfs. He said it was perfect but my salt was at dangerous levels .27 when I tested the levels it was it .22, .23. And my nitrates are still reading high, bout 80 when I came home and did the test. I'm wondering if it's my test it says it will expire in 2017. But that still doesn't explain why the salinity differ from the LFS reading I really don't know what to think at this point


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[jeffaquarius]

Sorry... I clean the canister about every six months at a time every 3. My ammonia is it zero, nitrates are at 80 my phosphates are at 5, calcium at 420. Nit zero and pH at between 8.2 & 8.4.
Ps that's for the replies

Has everyone overlooked the canister being cleaned every 6 months? I would turn off canister for now and fix or fine tune skimmer then reduce feeding after 50% pwc.

 

[Mebbid]

Bleu - Where did you get the sand from that you put in the refugium?

Has everyone overlooked the canister being cleaned every 6 months? I would turn off canister for now and fix or fine tune skimmer then reduce feeding after 50% pwc.

A canister wouldn't suddenly crank a nitrate reading up to 80ppm. It would however contribute to a continuous low level reading. It's not really the root of the problem. Also, if I'm not mistaken someone already mentioned cleaning the canister more often.

 

[jeffaquarius]

Canister and skimmer my friend. Nutrients = nitrates. If your canister catches all those exta uneaten food what do you get?