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Old 06-22-2011, 03:23 AM   #11
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Lots of things worse than collecting is killing the reefs.. Clumsy divers themselves cause more damage than our hobby does to the reefs. As a divemaster you are always warning somebody away from kicking the reef or touching things that shouldn't be touched. But we should be aware that the coral did come from somewhere. Same with most of the fish. You don't keep giraffes in your backyard because you know you don't have the facility to keep them, or should know this... Same with some reef creatures. There are some things that are as common as sparrows and should pose little concern, but that big head of brain coral you bought may have been pried off a pretty reef somewhere. At least when buying cultured frags, the damage to the natural ecosystem is reduced. Anything that is grown in a big tank, like many of the available clown fish, or cultured frags on a piece of substrate should not make you feel guilty in the least. I think the point is to take responsibility for what you buy from the LFS, because your shopping habits control what gets collected and how. And use your reef to instruct others in the beauty we may be losing if we don't get serious about the environment. Point out how careful all the parameters must be for these creatures to multiply and how difficult it is to maintain that balance.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Gti_Leo View Post
its no big surprise.

if you've ever watch the movie the matrix, agent smith refers to human beings as a plague, popultating an area until every last resource is consumed and then move on to the next. in a way its pretty much true, we ourselves are killing the planet we live on and are looking to use mars as a new home once we kill off earth
I've actually been around for some discussions where biologists ponder the idea of humans being actual parasites in every sense of the word.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Marconis

I've actually been around for some discussions where biologists ponder the idea of humans being actual parasites in every sense of the word.
Of course we are all parasites,anything that survives by using a resource of any kind from something else is a parasite.
The problem is global warming caused by our greed and disregard for our planet.It is always about the money,especially with our politicians .That why that won't do anything to try to stop or slow down the process.
We straightened out the Everglades so more land would be available to build on and look what happened.We have had to go change it back.We spend billions of dollars to keep a city in a bowl under sea level (NO)that should be spent on trying to help bring our planet back to healthier conditions.Our children and grandchildren are going to have to deal with terrible events that are just starting to manifest themselves .I get great enjoyment from my aquarium,I do try to only get tank raised livestock such as from ORA.
Remember one thing: "You don't screw with Mother Nature,you will always lose".Believe me we are losing.

Getting off soapbox now.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregcoyote View Post
Lots of things worse than collecting is killing the reefs.. Clumsy divers themselves cause more damage than our hobby does to the reefs. As a divemaster you are always warning somebody away from kicking the reef or touching things that shouldn't be touched. But we should be aware that the coral did come from somewhere. Same with most of the fish. You don't keep giraffes in your backyard because you know you don't have the facility to keep them, or should know this... Same with some reef creatures. There are some things that are as common as sparrows and should pose little concern, but that big head of brain coral you bought may have been pried off a pretty reef somewhere. At least when buying cultured frags, the damage to the natural ecosystem is reduced. Anything that is grown in a big tank, like many of the available clown fish, or cultured frags on a piece of substrate should not make you feel guilty in the least. I think the point is to take responsibility for what you buy from the LFS, because your shopping habits control what gets collected and how. And use your reef to instruct others in the beauty we may be losing if we don't get serious about the environment. Point out how careful all the parameters must be for these creatures to multiply and how difficult it is to maintain that balance.
As a fellow diver +1

For sheer numbers of species the parasites outnumber the non-parasites in this world.
Quote:
anything that survives by using a resource of any kind from something else is a parasite.
Unless it returns a resource to that thing, then it's a symbiote.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricksreef

Of course we are all parasites,anything that survives by using a resource of any kind from something else is a parasite.
The problem is global warming caused by our greed and disregard for our planet.It is always about the money,especially with our politicians .That why that won't do anything to try to stop or slow down the process.
We straightened out the Everglades so more land would be available to build on and look what happened.We have had to go change it back.We spend billions of dollars to keep a city in a bowl under sea level (NO)that should be spent on trying to help bring our planet back to healthier conditions.Our children and grandchildren are going to have to deal with terrible events that are just starting to manifest themselves .I get great enjoyment from my aquarium,I do try to only get tank raised livestock such as from ORA.
Remember one thing: "You don't screw with Mother Nature,you will always lose".Believe me we are losing.

Getting off soapbox now.
If that definition was true than every living organism would be a parasite since no life is completely self sufficient. Even plants require nutrients from soil, making them not self sufficient. So you would be implying that life in itself is parasitic, a plague on the earth. Id have to disagree with you. But I do agree that humans in particular are harming the earth at an alarming rate. If we dont do something soon, coral reefs will only exist in pictures and videos. That also goes with rainforests too for that matter. It's pretty sad when you hear that more species are predicted to go extinct in this century than have gone extinct for hundreds of thousands of years
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:20 PM   #16
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When folks come to your home and remark what a wonderful reef tank you have, say "thank you, now can you imagine pouring a quart of motor oil in on it?" That is what is happening under the surface. The public at large is not as mad as they need to be at polluters. Polluters should need to worry about mob hangings. Heaven is underwater, unfortunately only a few get to really experience it.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:25 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by RYANLAWRENCE

If that definition was true than every living organism would be a parasite since no life is completely self sufficient. Even plants require nutrients from soil, making them not self sufficient. So you would be implying that life in itself is parasitic, a plague on the earth. Id have to disagree with you. But I do agree that humans in particular are harming the earth at an alarming rate. If we dont do something soon, coral reefs will only exist in pictures and videos. That also goes with rainforests too for that matter. It's pretty sad when you hear that more species are predicted to go extinct in this century than have gone extinct for hundreds of thousands of years
Right,we are and every living thing depends on something else to survive.The key is we need to learn to use what we need without destroying it and the earth. How many times has the mpg improvement requirements for vehicles been delayed by congress by lobbyist's for the automakers and oil companies?Why do I have to pay through taxes to replenish beach sand and subsidize home insurance for homes built right on the water,when I know mother nature will come along eventually and damage or destroy them.
That money should be spent to reduce global warming.

We allow our leaders to relax and eliminate laws and rules that were meant to protect our oceans and wildlife.Example:Along the NC coast trawlers used to only be able to drag their nets when they were at least three miles out.Now they are allowed to drag them right along the beach.So if you wanted to fish after they went by,forget it.
It is always about the money.
The problem is how can we change that?
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:44 PM   #18
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Based on yalls opinions I'd say the real question now is how do we change humanity's relationship with the world from parasitic to symbiotic? Or in terms reefers can relate to if we are clowns how can we protect our anemone
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by spencelee10
Based on yalls opinions I'd say the real question now is how do we change humanity's relationship with the world from parasitic to symbiotic? Or in terms reefers can relate to if we are clowns how can we protect our anemone
Great Analogy.
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricksreef

Right,we are and every living thing depends on something else to survive.The key is we need to learn to use what we need without destroying it and the earth. How many times has the mpg improvement requirements for vehicles been delayed by congress by lobbyist's for the automakers and oil companies?Why do I have to pay through taxes to replenish beach sand and subsidize home insurance for homes built right on the water,when I know mother nature will come along eventually and damage or destroy them.
That money should be spent to reduce global warming.

We allow our leaders to relax and eliminate laws and rules that were meant to protect our oceans and wildlife.Example:Along the NC coast trawlers used to only be able to drag their nets when they were at least three miles out.Now they are allowed to drag them right along the beach.So if you wanted to fish after they went by,forget it.
It is always about the money.
The problem is how can we change that?
There is only one way, vote, then hold the jerks accountable. As long as the filthy rich run the country, you can forget about anything environmental being done.
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