Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater Reef Aquaria
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 05-27-2005, 05:07 AM   #1
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Briar, Va
Posts: 170
Send a message via AIM to amahler
Plan For Moving Filtration to Basement

Hello!

I've been pondering the idea of turning an old glass 90 gallon aquarium I have on hand into a large sump for my 90 gallon acrylic system (nearly double my water volume this way) while simultaneously moving it all to the basement.

This will require plumbing through the floor and a decent sized pump.

I'm looking at about 22 horizontal feet of pipe, a couple of 90 degree elbows, some couplings and about 11 feet of vertical distance.

I ran an approximation of these variables through this pump calc:

http://reefs.org/pumps/

I based it on an Iwaki MD-100 model pump. Depending on my pipe size (3/4" vs 1") I can get anywhere from about 1000 GPH to 1400 GPH (give or take) using this design. Currently, I'm probably getting about 450 GPH with my existing pump under the tank, so this would achieve my goal of moving to the basement AND upping my cycling rate.

I made some 3D models of the house, the tank, the sump system, etc., so I could visualize the idea and look for problems.

I was hoping to get some feedback on this design from any fellow aquarists with experience in this kind of endeavor.

Any comments, suggestions, hardware recommendations, etc., would be highly appreciated.

The 3D models are visible here along with a Quicktime animation I threw together that flies through the entire design from various angles:

http://sparhawk.sbc.edu/basement-sump

Thanks!
- Aaron
__________________

__________________
amahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 09:46 AM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 2,694
Nice work. That looks great.

Only thing I could add is make sure your sump room is well ventilated. Humidity will be an issue. You will also need something in the sump on the drain or some baffles in the sump. The velocity of the water coming down will create a lot of bubbles.

Also, I assume your overflow can handle the huge increase in flow. The standard Magaflow won't handle 1400 gph.

I have a GenX PCX 40 on my basment sump. I only have to pump 12-14ft though and my tank flow I estimate to be around 600-800 gph. That is what my overflow handles.

Looks good.
__________________

__________________
*180 gal Display, 100 gal basement sump, 33 gal refugium, 3x250 MH, 2x160 VHO actinics, zoos, some softies, LPS & lots of acros and other SPS.
*100 gal prop tank plumbed into main system w/ 2x96 PC lights and 1x150 MH,
ellisz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 10:25 AM   #3
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Briar, Va
Posts: 170
Send a message via AIM to amahler
My tank is acrylic and has an overflow box built in. That serves the current sump in the form of a single large hole (1" to 1.5", it appears) in the bottom of the back left corner.

I've been curious about that aspect, actually. I assume this means that I'll not be getting enough water out from that hole to keep up with pumping it back in so fast? If that's the case, I suppose I'll have to forgo the massive GPH and just throttle my pump back to whatever I can get away with? Since my pump is not throttled now, does that mean my current GPH is as much as I can ever do?

How would one go about computing that or possibly even increasing it?

Thanks!
- Aaron
__________________
amahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 10:33 AM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 2,694
From what I understand, the standard overflows that come on All Glass tanks are rated at 600 gph but it is limited by the overflow wall design, not the size of the drain hole. If you don't know the rating on the overflow, you might have to do some testing and see if you need to throttle it back.

Maybe someone with a big pump can chime in.

Your current overflow will most likely handle a bigger pump but since the pump is supplying water at 400 gph, the overflow is only flowing 400 gph. Pump selection should be based on overflow capacity. You can always under size the pump but you can't over size.

I have heard of people taking the rated 600 gph overflow like I have an modifiying the overflow so it will handle 1200 or so. I did some modding on mine but I have no way of testing what gph I am getting. You might be ok. Depends on your overflow.
__________________
*180 gal Display, 100 gal basement sump, 33 gal refugium, 3x250 MH, 2x160 VHO actinics, zoos, some softies, LPS & lots of acros and other SPS.
*100 gal prop tank plumbed into main system w/ 2x96 PC lights and 1x150 MH,
ellisz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 10:36 AM   #5
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Briar, Va
Posts: 170
Send a message via AIM to amahler
On an added note, I just looked closer and the outside diameter of the threaded bulkhead connector sticking out of the bottom of the overflow in the back left corner is considerably larger than the diameter of the pipe that stands in the box itself. It appears that pipe steps down quite a bit and the hose underneath that leads into the current wet/dry is slipped into this bottom hole rather than screwed onto the outside threading.

My point is that the hole from the overflow box in the bottom of the tank might have a good bit larger usable diameter than the plumbing currently hooked to it for today's outflow rate.

However... even if I were to switch all of this plumbing to use the full diameter, will the overflow of the tank through the "teeth" cut into the top two sides of that corner overflow box not still restrict the flow?

Where is the true limiting factor here and how would I compute the absolute maximum rate if that's what I'm not already getting?

Thanks!
- Aaron
__________________
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding hardware.

90G acrylic/22G sump/TF100A skimmer
90lbs (45 liverocks.com & ~45 donated 14+ year old Fiji)
Imperator, D. Saddle Butterfly, 2 Percula Clowns, Cleaner Shrimp and an army of Hermits that never sleep
amahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 10:37 AM   #6
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 861
Send a message via MSN to Brisc0
Just brainstorming, you'll have to think it through as far as plausibility. to defeat the overflow issue you could "help it along' with another pump upstairs that feeds a larger diameter line from your overflow. (i.e. your overflow has a junction where it still drains to the basement, however another pump pulls water from your main tank and feeds it to the overflow line to "makeup" the remaining GPH) I would think that this could work, it just transfers the responsibility of moving water from the main to the sump to another pump and puts the overflows job solely to skimming the top. Anyhow, just a thought, never done it, never seen it done, take it with a grain of reef crystals.
__________________
Here's to swimmin with bowlegged women.

-105G SPS Reef with 30G Sump/Fuge Combo
-30G LTAnemonarium with mated porcelain crabs, 10 sexy shrimp, and 2 pink skunks all tied into the other 135G in my system.
Brisc0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 10:38 AM   #7
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Briar, Va
Posts: 170
Send a message via AIM to amahler
Elisz,

Seems I was writing as you were writing, so we've collided slightly on my premature questions and your answers.

Thanks!
- Aaron
__________________
amahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 10:46 AM   #8
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Briar, Va
Posts: 170
Send a message via AIM to amahler
Brisc0,

Thanks! It is an interesting idea. The only downside I can see right up front for my purposes, though, is wanting to move all the noisy gear into the basement. On that basis, I don't know that I want to put in a second pump near the tank.

I'm thinking I might be "hosed" here (pun intended) on the overflow limitation. I can still proceed with this, but I might not be getting my cycling rate up by much (if any). Oh well. I will write to the designer of my tank, though, and see if he has some hard numbers. He's been VERY helpful in the past on other questions (myfishtank.com).

Part of the reason I don't know these specs up front (I'm usually pretty anal about knowing all the specs and possibilities of any kind of system that I get into) is that the tank was given to me by a friend in its current running configuration. Had I bought the system originally for a reef design I might have had it designed differently and likely come across this during the initial research. Granted, I'm not complaining here at all... it's a wonderful system and FAR more expensive than I'd have pursued (if I had bought anything at all) at this point in time.

Whatever the case, please keep the insights and critiques coming! I want to consider everything I can possibly consider before drilling holes in the floor, buying gear, etc. If I'm limited on flow rate, I can at least maybe step my pump size down and save some money over the cost of the Iwaki MD-100.

Thanks!
- Aaron
__________________
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding hardware.

90G acrylic/22G sump/TF100A skimmer
90lbs (45 liverocks.com & ~45 donated 14+ year old Fiji)
Imperator, D. Saddle Butterfly, 2 Percula Clowns, Cleaner Shrimp and an army of Hermits that never sleep
amahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 11:00 AM   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 2,694
I had planned on buying a Panworld 200 or Sequence Barracuda to feed my tank. Both pumps supply more than my overflow. I had planned on splitting the feed off to feed my refugium and a frag tank. You could set some more stuff up and feed off the big pump
__________________
*180 gal Display, 100 gal basement sump, 33 gal refugium, 3x250 MH, 2x160 VHO actinics, zoos, some softies, LPS & lots of acros and other SPS.
*100 gal prop tank plumbed into main system w/ 2x96 PC lights and 1x150 MH,
ellisz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 11:05 AM   #10
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 861
Send a message via MSN to Brisc0
You could always add a hang on overflow that can handle it all and throttle it back with a gate valve to where you want it. This would make it so that you could at least cut out the bubbling factor down below a little. <still grasping at straws, but it wasnt said yet>
__________________

__________________
Here's to swimmin with bowlegged women.

-105G SPS Reef with 30G Sump/Fuge Combo
-30G LTAnemonarium with mated porcelain crabs, 10 sexy shrimp, and 2 pink skunks all tied into the other 135G in my system.
Brisc0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
base, filtration, moving

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moving 65 gal to basement Cromileptes14 DIY Projects 3 02-05-2009 07:55 PM
Moving tank to basement. Need advice. binaryterror Saltwater Reef Aquaria 14 01-02-2006 06:46 PM
Considering moving filtration to basement... input? amahler Saltwater Reef Aquaria 1 05-09-2005 05:04 PM
Need help - moving sump to the basement ellisz Saltwater Reef Aquaria 9 02-22-2005 03:13 PM
Moving: filtration question... Tigerlily General Hardware/Equipment Discussion 6 10-22-2003 12:38 AM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.