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Old 03-22-2012, 05:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Wy Renegade View Post
Absolutely agree with almost everything you said . Just a point of clarification on the sentence above in red. Wet/Drys only create nitrates based on the amount of raw materials (ammonia, food, nitrites, dead algae, etc) in the system - they cannot create them. If you're getting a lot of nitrates out of the wet/dry then you have another issue that you need to go looking for. In a normal reef tank, further conversion of nitrates into harmless nitrogen gas will occur in the LR in your DT. Keep in mind that a fuge only eliminates nitrates and phosphates out of the system if you are physically removing algae from the system. If you are simply allowing the algae to grow, these components maybe bound up in the algae, but they are not gone. If/when that algae begins to die off, they are released back into the system.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a fuge system - much easier and cleaner when properly set-up IMO, I just like the whole story being out there. Fuges aren't magical, just like the wet/dry, they need maintanence.
You know, I'd wondered about that claim myself. Seems everywhere I go, I hear or read about wet/dry becoming a "nitrate factory" and it never made a lot of sense to me. But without any personal experience, I wasn't about to contradict the hundreds of reefers before me. LOL
I was simply regurgitating what I've been told. But yes, I love my fuge. I'm getting such a variety of macro in it that I don't feel the need to hide it. It's just as fun to look at. The chaeto is the one I'm using primarily for nutrient export, since it's fast growing and easy to thin.
One small point, it is my understanding that in live rock and shallow sand beds, only nitrification occurs (ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate) because the bacteria that do this are obligate aerobic. The anaerobic bacteria occur in a deep sand bed. Am I mistaken?
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:34 PM   #22
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Wy Renagade thank you and everyone else for all the feedback... Very good info to rap my head around..
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:40 PM   #23
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What up GT! I'll help you make the new sump, that way I can learn more about it when I'm ready to build mine.
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:47 PM   #24
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What up GT! I'll help you make the new sump, that way I can learn more about it when I'm ready to build mine.
Nice... I will let you know when. Have to find a tank that will fit...
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:51 PM   #25
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Let's make it from scratch to fit your dims.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:31 PM   #26
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You know, I'd wondered about that claim myself. Seems everywhere I go, I hear or read about wet/dry becoming a "nitrate factory" and it never made a lot of sense to me. But without any personal experience, I wasn't about to contradict the hundreds of reefers before me. LOL
I was simply regurgitating what I've been told. But yes, I love my fuge. I'm getting such a variety of macro in it that I don't feel the need to hide it. It's just as fun to look at. The chaeto is the one I'm using primarily for nutrient export, since it's fast growing and easy to thin.
One small point, it is my understanding that in live rock and shallow sand beds, only nitrification occurs (ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate) because the bacteria that do this are obligate aerobic. The anaerobic bacteria occur in a deep sand bed. Am I mistaken?
Actually, there is some research that shows that denitrafication also occurs in shallow sandbeds - let me see if I can find the link to the research.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:40 PM   #27
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Ok, two articles which talk about the process of nitrate conversion occuring in a shallow sandbed.

Feature Article: An Experimental Comparison of Sandbed and Plenum-Based Systems. Part 1: Controlled lab dosing experiments — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Feature Article: An Experimental Comparison of Sandbed and Plenum-Based Systems: Part 2: Live Animal Experiments — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Also, conversion of nitrate into harmless nitrogen gas occurs deep within LR (hence the advantage of LR rubble over bioballs). The same anaerobic bacteria that are found within the DSB are also present deep within LR.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:55 AM   #28
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Only got through the first one so far (it is almost 4 am, after all) but it's a fascinating read!
I'd always thought it odd that my Nitrates stay consistently low even though I'm often lazy with water changes. Would have been interesting to see this experiment continue for a year or so to see if there are any long term differences. Going to read part 2 tomorrow.
Thanks so much for posting that!
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