Qt

[Mike-words]

How big of wc could I do in my qt? as I have neglected it for months planing on getting some new fish. How long to qt? What do I need in the tank?

 

[Fishguy2727]

You can do a 100% water change, ideally with water from the DT.

Time varies from person to person. Some say 2 weeks, zoos do 90 days or more.

In order for the QT to work and be worth it it has to be at least as good as the DT. Pathogens don't cause illness, they are always around. Stress causes illness. If you don't remove all possible stressors (water quality, food quality, hiding places, etc.) you will cause stress and therefore illness. If the QT is more stressful than the DT in any way there is no point in quarantining.

 

[Mike-words]

There is some LR in there should I take it out.

 

[leftyfish]

You can do a 100% water change, ideally with water from the DT.

Time varies from person to person. Some say 2 weeks, zoos do 90 days or more.

In order for the QT to work and be worth it it has to be at least as good as the DT. Pathogens don't cause illness, they are always around. Stress causes illness. If you don't remove all possible stressors (water quality, food quality, hiding places, etc.) you will cause stress and therefore illness. If the QT is more stressful than the DT in any way there is no point in quarantining.

Pathogens don't cause illness? I have to disagree. I've been stressed before and I didn't get HIV, or Pneumonia, or even the common cold, why? Because I wasn't infected with the pathogen that causes those things.

If the fish is stressed and HAS a pathogenic disease, then it may show itself to be more evident under stress, yes. That is the whole purpose of QT. I just lost my all but two of my fish listening to advice that said, feed garlic, keep the fish stress free, it will be fine. IT WON'T be fine if it is infected with a pathogen. You must eliminate the pathogen and no amount of stress would bring it back if it is not present in the surrounding.

 

[leftyfish]

Take out the live rock, it looks nice, but if you have to treat it has to come out and you have to worry about the tank re-cycling then, another mistake I made.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Pathogens are ALWAYS present. You never have a sterile tank. Stress weakens the immune system and allows for whatever pathogens are present to take hold and cause disease. Yes, technically the pathogens are actually causing the disease, but it can't happen without the stress.

You may not have gotten HIV, but you got a cold or some other illness because whatever pathogen was present got the opportunity to infect you when you were stressed. This is why college students start getting the sniffles in May (stress from final exams allows for colds).

 

[carey]

I had most of my tank just die. I can see the stress being a factor in 1 death but the others? They were fine, stress free and then dead within a day. Something was introduced to the tank at some point. I have 3 fish still alive and seem to be fine. They do not seem stressed in any way shape or form but theres still a chance what got the other fish will get these last 3 as well.

 

[Gregcoyote]

You're both right...the main line defense fish have for water born parasites is their slime coat and how thick or thin it is. The level of free swimming parasites that can penetrate a dressed fishes slime coat starts the circus. Like humans, there has to be a critical level of, let's say a virus, to cause infection. One or two won't do it. So keeping the level of parasites in the system AND giving the fish their best chance of their own immune system rejecting parasites that they live with in the wild 24/7. Once a outbreak takes hold, that can stress the fish, or overcome them.

 

[Fishguy2727]

What was the disease?

Just because we don't understand the stressor, doesn't mean it isn't there. Aquariums are complicated systems, many things can affect our fish without us knowing it. I am sure there are diseases that can kill healthy, unstressed fish, but they are rare and not the usual cause of most deaths.

 

[carey]

No one has been able to identify the disease that got mine. The clsest thing is marine velvet. I emailed a disease guru from a website Mr X recommended and am hoping to hear back.

I know whatever killed those fish is still in the tank but for instance, the clowns that died were far from stressed. They were the happiest fish in the tank. Their water parameters are excellent and their diet is balanced.

I don't mean to debate, I just believe something has to be introduced to a system for it to have an effect.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Is this a marine or freshwater tank?

As stated there are some illnesses that can kill without stress, especially with wild caught animals from different habitats going into the same tank (like any marine tank). But effectively all common freshwater illnesses that people the worry the most about will not kill without stress. With saltwater it is a little different. Every new fish introduces pathogens to all the others, pathogens that are unique to them that the other fish have never been exposed to ever, so they have no immunity against. If you want to deal with disease take fish from all over the world and put them in the same tank (have a saltwater tank). And I do believe that even seemingly healthy tanks contain stress. It happens at night, it happens because of nutrition (no matter how balanced or varied our diets are, it is not perfect), it happens for reasons we don't even understand yet. Saltwater fish are very unforgiving when stressed at all, and are much more sensitive to anything.

 

[Gregcoyote]

Some fish are ticking time bombs. I hadn't lost a fish a several years, then bought these big cardinals. Had 5, now a week layer there is one left. Especially with live caught, they use to harvest fish off the reef using chemicals to drug them. Many of them were on their way out when bought. Over the years I experimented with various types of quarantine, but in the end, if not careful, you just double stressed the fish, but protected the home population from a potential disease breakout. The fish that acclimate live for over a decade in my tank, but some just don't.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Very good point. By the time fish get to our tanks they are likely to be very stressed, whether wild caught saltwater or farm raised freshwater. These fish are most likely to have problems. Your best bet is a good LFS that is honest about how long they have had fish and how well they are doing, and obviously take superb care of their fish. At the shop I was running we did big weekly water changes and (generally) only fed New Life Spectrum. I had the lowest death rate by far out of any shop I have ever worked at or known well enough to know their death rate. In general the only problems we had were from bad batches of fish from the wholesaler. We had very few returns for dead and with almost all of those I could find out something wrong about the person's tank, acclimation, etc.

 

[Gregcoyote]

I owned a LFS as well, but over 30 years ago when saltwater was really exotic. But the story on the fish and the diseases are all pretty similar with FW and SW fishes. Healthy, acclimated, eating fish are pretty hard to kill. But you can get that rare fish that is literally a time bomb, like a bird flu carrier on a airliner.

 

[carey]

I had healthy, acclimated eating fish that were dead within 24 hours. Some kind of fungus maybe? And it's saltwater. I know the source was the blue tang I put in, just don't know what he brought with him.
:-(

 

[Gregcoyote]

I have stayed away from both blue and purple Tangs for that same reason. In the past I have had some really bad experiences with them. Surgeon fish as well. In one case, a sick purple tang wiped out about half my reef tank before the ich subsided. I just did water changes and used a big UV sterilizer I had access to. We are mixing fish from all around the world and that can cause disease issues.

 

[carey]

I most likely won't put another tang in the tank. I will be qt'ing anyways so hopefully that will prevent a tank wipe out in the future.

 

[Mike-words]

What should I add to a virtually empty tank? If some one could give me a guide as to how to qt properly that would be great. My last attempt at qt virtually killed the fish before we aborted qt to save the little guys but sadly they were to far gone to save and the longest only lasted 2 weeks in DT.

 

[leftyfish]

Everything you need to know about QT:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php

 

[Ricksreef]

When possible try to find a local LFS that is not a chain store and where the owner specializes in SW only.Where I am at I am fortunate in that regard.I am able to order the fish I want and go to the LFS and get the fish as the owner gets back from the airport with the shipment.That cuts out one stressed procedure in that the local LFS doesn't have to acclimate the fish in his tank.I acclimate straight to mine from the wholesaler.
Also make sure once acclimated at your house take the fish from the bag with your hand and place it in your tank.Do not let the water from the bag go in your tank.Naturally with some species you would use a net instead of your hand.

Also I firmly believe you should run a uv sterilizer 24/7.I know many don't agree.