Questions abouts some Corals and Tank Update w/ Pics (Long)

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hyosafi

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
42
Hi guys, its been a while since I've posted an update about my tank and I've got a few questions so I thought this would be a good time.

Here was my tank in early December:

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And then in late January:

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Since this time, pretty much everything in my tank has been golden except for FISH. This is my biggest issue. Althought my water quality is pretty much perfect, most of my fish do not survive past 3 or 4 weeks. Currently, I've got that same blue tang, ONE percula, a bicolor psuedo and a scooter blenny.

When the fish do die, its seems to be similiar in that there are no signs of distress or anything before they die. For everything that died, the previous day the fish was swimming around, being social AND eating. No exaggeration. The next day I would find it dead. It happened to the anthias, the yellow tang, 2 flame angels and a copperband butterfly (Over about 4-5 months). It is very frustrating because like I said, water quality is literally perfect (0 nitrates/nitrites). The last fish I added was about 6 weeks ago with the Copperband Butterfly. He immediately was eating, being social and doing great for about 3 weeks. Then one day I came home and he was dead.

What I did notice is that the deaths started happening after I added a Coral Branded Shrimp. He pretty much hides out all day and does his own thing and only acts aggresive somethings goes near his area , then he will sort of snap at them. Everyone says these things are peaceful and whatnot but what the heck else is killing my fish? I know I do not have any mantis shrimps or something crazy like that, and I'm having a really hard time getting the CBS out. He has like 1 foot long antennae and can feel me coming from a mile away.
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Other than this minor issue of FISH NOT SURVIVING, my tank is doing great:

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I have sort of gone nuts with the corals:

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My questions actually have to do with a couple of the corals so I suppose I'll post about that in the Sick forum. Hopefully you guys can help me with those questions here:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?p=819976#819976

Thanks!
 
How do you acclimate the fish?
Have you purchased them all from the same store?
Does your temp and pH stay stable?
That's a beautiful tank by the way!
 
Awesome tank! I'd go along with what Scott is picking at. It seems the place you are getting your livestock from might be your issue. Wild caught fish are notorious for dying just like you said, just a stress thing. Can you try a different store in your area?
 
How do you acclimate the fish?

I pretty much just float the bag. I tried drip acclimating once but with the way my tank is setup it was a mess. I'm not sure if acclimation is the issue because the fish survive for at least 2 weeks before dying. If it were, wouldn't they show signs of stress much earlier?

Have you purchased them all from the same store?

This is something that I thought of and unfortuantely, buying fish from different places didn't help. The fish came from 3 different LFS's (maybe 2, i'm having trouble remembering). There is a place near my house that does custom aquariums and althought their prices are quite a bit higher, I am going to get my next fish from them as they seem to quarantine their fish and keep an eye on them before selling.

Does your temp and pH stay stable?

Indeed it does. PH stays stable at about 8.0 and my temperature is fairly stable. It ranges from between 78.5 - 80.5 throughout the day.
 
FYI scooter blennies need an established tank with plenty of lr just like mandarins, since they usually only eat live food (pods). Since you tank is about 6 months old it may be ok but watch him to make sure he doesn't deplete your pods and starve.
 
That's a good point, Lance, mine now will eat frozen.
I would try the other store and see how that works out, in this case, you may be getting what you pay for. You could also ask the other LFS how the fish are caught, do they QT. I like to put a fish on hold and wait a week or so, to see how it is doing. This also calms down my "instant gratification" urge.
 
Your tank looks good. Sorry to hear about your troubles with the fish. SInce you still have the regal tang, the chances of some type of parasitic infestation are low, but still possible. When a fish dies for "no apparent reason", that is, no signs of trauma, disease, etc. it is a good idea to evaluate the diet. Especialy if they are eating and seem fine one day and die teh next. Fish are very good at compensting for poor diet but then dramatically decrease in codition. Can you explain what, ho, and how often you feed the tank? Your corals look good but a listng of current water parameters is a great place to start.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

Well I just tested my water a couple of days ago and the results were pretty much confirmed by a local LFS

Ammonia - 0
PH - 8.1
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 0 (It really is 0 or near 0, I didn't think this was that possible but adding a fuge dropped this figure to 0)
Phosphates - I havn't tested this in a while but last time I did, phosphates were very low (lighter than the first color on the chart)
Temp - 78.5 - 81 throughout the day

I have not tested Calcium or Alkalinity recently, but I thought those were variables that affected corals more, not fish.

As far as feeding goes, I feed every other day. I use those frozen cubes of mysis and feed them about 3/4 of the cube. About 3 times a week I also give them Cyclopeeze. Finally, I use DT's and some other phytoplankton food alternatively every couple days.
 
Do you know what the temp drops to a few hours after lights out? If it is more than 2 degrees, that may be your problem.
 
As far as feeding goes, I feed every other day. I use those frozen cubes of mysis and feed them about 3/4 of the cube. About 3 times a week I also give them Cyclopeeze. Finally, I use DT's and some other phytoplankton food alternatively every couple days.
This could be part of the problem. I suggest offering algae based foods along with the mysis. Hang dry seadweed strips for the tangs and also feed spirulina flake (I like OSO). Also, make sure you soak the food in suppliments like selcon, vita-chem, garlic or zoe.
 
The qt of fish at lfs' is not a recommended failsafe. The fact of the matter is that they have a large number of fish cycling in and out of their systems at any given time throughout the week and even if qt is practiced, the fish would still be reintroduced to parasites/infections once back in the main system. What is the conditioning of the fish near their deaths? Do they look to be getting thin, color loss, etc? Although I agree with a varied diet, 3-4wks of mysis before death shouldn't be a cause for concern as long as they are all eating it. My thoughts are along the lines of internal parasites as a possibility given the time frame of deaths...
 
Do you know what the temp drops to a few hours after lights out? If it is more than 2 degrees, that may be your problem.

It does not drop significantly, the heaters kick right in.

This could be part of the problem. I suggest offering algae based foods along with the mysis. Hang dry seadweed strips for the tangs and also feed spirulina flake (I like OSO). Also, make sure you soak the food in suppliments like selcon, vita-chem, garlic or zoe.

I actually do hang dry seaweed strips, just forgot to mention that one. Actually, as a side question, do you guys now how long a package of those last? Mine came in a plastic, clamshell container and I've had it for a few months now. Also, the blue tang is pretty much the only one that eats it. Well, and the cleaner shrimp when he can get to it. lol.

I am going to look for selcon, vita-chem and garlic next time I go to the LFS. I have not seen those there before, just the usual supplements and additives.

Its just that they all eat so well and eagerly that it makes me think like food isn't the issue.


What is the conditioning of the fish near their deaths? Do they look to be getting thin, color loss, etc?

This is the most frustrating part of the whole thing. All but one of them were eating and swimming around shortly before death. And by shortly I mean the day before, within 24 hours. As such, I see no real physical symptoms that would occur if the fish died over a longer period of time. The problem is I havn't been able to see them within the hours before their deaths to observe what actually happens. I just find the poor things.

The Copperband was eating the week before his death. And then one day I fed and although he was swimming around and looked great, he didn't eat. I thought, okay no big deal, he has done that before. He was still sort of grazing. Next day he was dead.

A yellow tang that died was the most bizarre one. He was one of the first fish I'd put in the tank in December. The day before he died he looked great and ate, next day he was dead.

One of the flame angels did pretty much the same thing as the yellow tang except the feeding before he died, he did not eat. Then sort of swam towards the back and died.

Sorta frustrating. :?
 
I would be curious hyosafi what you are paying for these fish that you have bought. Sudden death can very easily be related to capture using Cyanide. While it's outlawed darn near world wide it still happens and when it does fish can look fine then bang they are gone. This could be your problem?
 
I've read that fish captured in this way appear to look better then the other fish, some say almost with a glow and then a few weeks later are dead.
 
I would be curious hyosafi what you are paying for these fish that you have bought. Sudden death can very easily be related to capture using Cyanide. While it's outlawed darn near world wide it still happens and when it does fish can look fine then bang they are gone. This could be your problem?

Well, the Yellow Tang that died was $35, the Flame Angels were about $50 each, the Anthias were A LOT as there were 4 of the, so about $85 for those. The Copperband was on sale for $22. Aww, why'd you make me thinkg of how much money I've lost!!!

Its looking like one of the main conclusions here is the source of my fish might be the cause of my problem. In a couple of weeks I'm going to buy a couple fish from the swanky LFS I was talking about. Hopefully things will go better for them.
 
Do you run a UV light? I would run fishless for a few months in case its a some type of bacteria that is killing the fish. Can you get a UV and run it for a few months in the hopes of killing off and bad bacteria.
I had what some thought was brookanylla and it killed off every fish in my tank. They showed signs of illness. Ran fishless for about 3 months with a large UV and it killed off the disease.

Good luck with what ever you do. I would look into a better acclimation process also, the float and dump method is not that good.
 
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