"Reef caution fish"

[Scottm84]

What's everyone's views on putting so called reef caution fish in a reef tank? Fish like butterfly's or angels in particularly a flame angel. I've seen programmes like Tanked and they're chucking in these types of fish in to live reefs also putting tangs in relatively small aquariums. Is it just advisory for large aquariums or vital? advisory for large aquariums or vital? Has anyone had any luck with with these types of fish in reefs or tangs in smaller aquariums. I've seen and heard of people doing it and the fish are fine. I've not tried it myself, yet. But I am considering it.

 

[Scottm84]

^^^^^ Copy and pasting error on my phone, whoops ha

 

[obscurereef]

It's a gamble. Plus some pick on inverts too, not just coral. I wouldn't follow what Tanked is doing..maybe they pick specific corals that the dwarf angelfish isn't likely to nibble on. People always nag about putting tangs into large long tanks like 6' and up b/c they swim a lot doing laps all day and need room. The longer they live in a small tank the shorter their life will be b/c their organs will compress...something like they can't grow properly in a smaller tank...I'm sure someone will elaborate on this. How many gallons is your tank and what tang were you thinking of? If it's a tamini or kole tang in a 70 gallon it would be fine. For the other species I wouldn't suggest such a small tank.

 

[Scottm84]

Thats what I thought. I wasn't keen on doing it and have been careful so far in choosing fish. Mine is only 180 litre so around 48 us gallons soft reef. Not a lot really but I've seen it done so it got me thinking. I'm only thinking of a yellow tang and a flame angel but I don't want the tang to be unhealthy which I'm guessing would happen and the flame to nip at any corals because then I'd have to remove it which I don't want to do

 

[obscurereef]

Yeah would highly discourage getting the yellow tang in your tank. I've had to narrow down on a lot of fish myself so..yeah really sucks when you fall in love with a fish and you can't get it, but it's all for the best .

 

[Scottm84]

I'm guessing a blue tang is out of the question too then? They have baby ones in our LFS but I just think they will grow and we'll have to get rid. I'm constantly telling my girlfriend in the LFS "no" haha "can we get this one?" "No!" Haha we eventually settle on new corals and she is happy until next time

 

[crister13]

Yes blue gangs swim even more. Both need a 6' tank IMO. The organs of the fish continue to grow while the body doesn't, so they die slowly and painfully pretty much. It's horrible if you think about it. Just wait for that upgrade an then you can have tangs!!!! And then you'll want something that's too big for that tank..... Just like me lol.

 

[obscurereef]

Yeah, blue tangs grow even larger than yellow tangs. I know how tempting it is to get a tiny fish that's not even an inch and keep it for a while, but that's not an ideal environment. Yes there are people who keep tangs in 30s, 40s, 55, etc and will say "oh they're fine in our little tank, healthy and doesn't grow too fast", but what's best is to have a larger tank. Like I wouldn't recommend someone keeping an emperor angelfish in a 90 or 125 gallon tank, but people do anyway...Lol, my family always wants me to get a pretty colorful fish, and my reply most of the time is "sure if you want all my other fish/coral to get eaten". They have even tried to convince me to get a tang or some fish that will grow large to keep for a little while in my 70 gallon reef, but I don't feel like putting stress on a fish acclimating it to my tank, only to have it be more stressed when it grows too large and needs to go.

 

[Scottm84]

Yes blue gangs swim even more. Both need a 6' tank IMO. The organs of the fish continue to grow while the body doesn't, so they die slowly and painfully pretty much. It's horrible if you think about it. Just wait for that upgrade an then you can have tangs!!!! And then you'll want something that's too big for that tank..... Just like me lol.

Point taken. I was just wondering what the implications are and the answer is quite severe in the long run. We keep our aquariums mainly for the fish so why would we want to harm them by putting them in to the wrong environment. I will definitely resist temptation in buying tangs but a flame angel is just hit or miss I'm guessing? Some may nip others won't. And I've always thought of butterfly fish as a big no no in a reef but again I've seen it done

 

[obscurereef]

Copperband butterflies are pretty much the only reef caution fish of butterflies..but they are known to eat feather duster worms and other inverts possibly. If you really want to get the flame angel, try it out, but that will only be causing more stress on your fish and finding out when your coral is already eaten.

 

[Scottm84]

Yeah, blue tangs grow even larger than yellow tangs. I know how tempting it is to get a tiny fish that's not even an inch and keep it for a while, but that's not an ideal environment. Yes there are people who keep tangs in 30s, 40s, 55, etc and will say "oh they're fine in our little tank, healthy and doesn't grow too fast", but what's best is to have a larger tank. Like I wouldn't recommend someone keeping an emperor angelfish in a 90 or 125 gallon tank, but people do anyway...Lol, my family always wants me to get a pretty colorful fish, and my reply most of the time is "sure if you want all my other fish/coral to get eaten". They have even tried to convince me to get a tang or some fish that will grow large to keep for a little while in my 70 gallon reef, but I don't feel like putting stress on a fish acclimating it to my tank, only to have it be more stressed when it grows too large and needs to go.

I knew that would be the answer lol but more importantly the right one. I won't be buying any tangs for this tank so I will just have to look forward to an upgrade in the future. I'm still undecided on the flame but I will really think about that one. I'm just looking for a really beautiful fish as a kind of "main" fish for the tank and I'm struggling to find one because of size and one that's compatible

 

[Scottm84]

Copperband butterflies are pretty much the only reef caution fish of butterflies..but they are known to eat feather duster worms and other inverts possibly. If you really want to get the flame angel, try it out, but that will only be causing more stress on your fish and finding out when your coral is already eaten.

True, it's going to be a risk and I know it may not work. It looks like my head will have to overrule my heart on this occasion because truthfully the corals are what I really want in this tank

 

[obscurereef]

Don't know if you posted this before on another thread, but what will you be upgrading to? The "main" or show fish that I want to get is the midas blenny. They swim in an eel-like fashion and are pretty active. This video sold me..I think they're gorgeous. Not as vibrant as a flame angel though, but still awesome!

Midas Blenny and tank mates - YouTube

 

[Scottm84]

That hasn't been decided yet. We haven't really got the space for a bigger tank just yet but hopefully in the future. The Midas is awesome! I haven't really looked much at them but I definitely will now. Thanks for the link

 

[Beengirl]

I've had the same trouble as you in finding a "show" fish. I have a 55g reef and had an angel, but he ate A LOT of coral, so I made a 30g FOWLR , took the tank apart to catch him and he's in the 30g now. But now I don't have any real good sized colorful fish, but I do have fish that I love. And I got this beautiful Carpenters wrasse- he's gorgeous!! Here's a pic:



And no one is eating my expensive coral!! Which makes me very happy!! And they're all pretty, just kinda smallish.

 

[Scottm84]

I would hate that to happen to my tank so that steers me away from angels even more but I still love them lol yeah he is a gorgeous fish. Does he hide a lot with him being a wrasse?

 

[daney90]

Yes, it depends on the flame angel itself because some of them will harm the corals and inverts while others don't like mine. I have some frags in my tank and my flame angel doesn't touch it.

 

[Beengirl]

I would hate that to happen to my tank so that steers me away from angels even more but I still love them lol yeah he is a gorgeous fish. Does he hide a lot with him being a wrasse?

No. The wrasse doesn't hide at all. He buried himself for 1 day, and now he's front and center all the time. He does hide in the rocks to sleep, but most all of them do that. and carpenters wrasse are peaceful, some wrasses can be semi-aggressive. So it's all peace and love in my tank right now, no one is "in charge" right now. (Except me, of course-lol).

 

[Scottm84]

Yes, it depends on the flame angel itself because some of them will harm the corals and inverts while others don't like mine. I have some frags in my tank and my flame angel doesn't touch it.

You have been lucky with him then fancy sending him to England? Lol I think I will actually stay away from angels on this occasion in fear of him nipping at any of my corals

 

[Ajm]

Yes blue gangs swim even more. Both need a 6' tank IMO. The organs of the fish continue to grow while the body doesn't, so they die slowly and painfully pretty much. It's horrible if you think about it. Just wait for that upgrade an then you can have tangs!!!! And then you'll want something that's too big for that tank..... Just like me lol.

Just wondering if you have a link to articles with scientific studies on the subject. It goes against my understanding of biology that the body would do such a thing.

I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, just looking for experimental evidence which would support that theory.

Thanks