Refugium

[New2Salt]

I've done some research and it sounds like something we'd like to do but I have some questions and since there are a lot of helpful people on here with a lot of experience here it goes...

We have a 29 gallon which is slowly turning into a reef, we only have 2 corals and 1 feather so far. We have 2 blennies that love copepods but will eat other stuff like brine and have found they like zooplankton too when we feed the pipe organ.

Right now on the back of the tank is a CPR2R bak pak skimmer, I know some don't do sumps but we are constantly adding water to the thing, we had that problem with the tank when we did fresh water too, not the same tank but same size. Hence the thought of maybe going with a sump and putting the skimmer down in it then it would free up the back.

My question is with the refugium would it cause extra weight by hanging it on the back of the tank wouldn't it cause more weight on the back of the glass therefore putting more stress on it?

My other question, could we do a Sump/refugium all in one thing and still be able to have the benefit of the copepods.

And my biggest question, when you have a refugium and you put macro algae in it to grow I take it that when the water goes into the tank it will seed the tank with the macro algae?

Oh boy this brings up another question... Macro Algae, I realize that it combats some algae like the bubble algae I have now, but from what I've read it seems like when you get the Macro Algae it seems to take over and when you try to control it you have to becareful of how you dispose of it, would that be the same of the water that you change, the old water shouldn't be put down the drain or down the storm drain. We don't have a fish that will eat the Macro Algae if we purchase some, we have 2 blennies and 2 percs and 1 green brittle or sea serpent that won't eat anything bigger than brine shrimp. We've tried a false lemon peel and that didn't work out and would hate to buy anymore fish, everyone is healthy and gets along.

Thanks for taking the time to read the novel and for the help in advance.


Kaurene

 

[Anemoneman]

1 green brittle or sea serpent that won't eat anything bigger than brine shrimp

If you mean green brittle star, then it can and will eat things larger than brine shrimp. Your blennie comes to mind.

you have to becareful of how you dispose of it, would that be the same of the water that you change, the old water shouldn't be put down the drain or down the storm drain

Where else can you dump old SW? Sometimes I throw the harvested macro in the garbage. If you get grape caulerpa started, it is one of the easiest to harvest and it grows fast, taking nutrients with it.

 

[loganj]

I'll try to answer the questions that I can. The sump is a good idea and you'll like it very much I think. As far as adding a HOB refugium, I have one on my 10g tank. It goes all the way across the tank and holds about 4 gal of water. No problems with the back glass...it'll hold it. Be sure you get one that is small enough to leave room for the overflow box that will have to hang on the back of the tank.
If you want to create a sump/refuge, remember that the refuge needs a relatively slow flow compared to the sump. What you could do is have a separate compartment in the sump with a small PH feeding it. Then let the water from there overflow back into the sump in the general area of the return pump. The only problem I can see for you is room. I think it's going to be really tight to get all that under a 29 gal tank. CPR makes some neat HOB fuges or you could build one.
I really don't know enough about the macro algae to make any comments about it. I haven't tried it yet...I've heard arguments for and against it...haven't decided whether I want to try it or not.
Logan J

 

[New2Salt]

Thanks to you both, not only for your replies but for reading the novel and getting back so quickly. First to Anemoneman I think it's a green serpent, we've tried feeding him krill that was the size of a dime, didn't touch it, had to take it out the next morning, tried chopping it up and he ate some but really seems to love brine and the leftover flake that has made it to the bottom when we forget to turn the PH's off. As far as nutrients, don't I want those in the tank? I'm just afraid of putting something in there that is going to go bezerk.

Logan, thanks for the help on the refugium, we don't really have a lot of room on the back so we may go the sump routine, I checked out your DIY projects and that's what got me even more interested. Right now we have our 29 gallon kittycornered, it's sitting on a pine stand that we bought at Petco with a hood, we just had (a couple months ago) had a pergo type flooring put in and that's what the stand is on, seems to be doing well, my concern is the sump, didn't want one at first because one I didn't want smell in the house, but now after doing this for a while I realize if you keep it maintained there won't be a smell. I have seen that some sumps have like covers, but I realize that if we make it a sump/refugium that the refugium part shouldn't have a cover over it. We'll have to figure out what we are going to do, it's so hard to decide, I find that is the hardest part of this. Trying to decide what is best when everyone has so many different ways of doing it.

Thanks again to both of you for your help!

 

[Anemoneman]

How big is the Green Brittle?

Nutrients that the algae uptake are what you DON"T want in your tank, things like ammonia, nitrate, phosphate, etc. When you remove handfuls af alage, you are removing hanfuls of these substances. It is a very efficient form of filtration.

Don't put a cover on your sump, fuge, or tank. It won't smell unless something's wrong.

 

[loganj]

Don't put a cover on your sump, fuge, or tank. It won't smell unless something's wrong.

I agree 100%. The primary function of the sump is to give you a place to put your equipment and provide circulation. It also is a great place to dose additives, add make up water, and do water changes. You know, I'm sure, that bioballs or other bio media is not needed or wanted in the sump. This is where it differs from a wet/dry. Some folks use a sponge prefilter in the overflow box or a sponge or bag in the sump to trap large particles. I don't...the scavengers in my tank do a good job on that stuff. You'll also need to be sure that the sump is of sufficient capacity to hold the water that will run into it in the event of a pump/power failure. I think you'll have room on the back of the tank, once the skimmer is moved to the sump, for a HOB fuge. The tank will have to sit far enough away from the wall to provide clearance for the overflow...the fuge should not require any more room than this.
Logan J

 

[New2Salt]

The HOB refugium do they come with a light or does it rely on the light provided by the tank? As far as the sump goes I'll leave that to my husband to read what you just posted, I'm not one for the plumbing end of things.

The Serpent Star which is what I believe it is, here's a pic of it, he's pretty big in my opinion he's missing one of his arms we bought him that way he didn't lose it when they caught him, it's in the process of growing back which is really cool looking. Here's a pic of him, hopefully IE won't give me a "Do you want to send this error in" thing again tried posting it before :/

 

[loganj]

The HOB fuges don't come with a light. I know lots of folks recommend reverse lighting the fuge to help stabilize pH. I haven't tried it yet...my fuge is full of pods and worms...no light on it yet. You can get a 13w PC kit from AH Supply for under $20 though...should be plenty of light for a HOB fuge. I suspect that one of the screw in 6500k PC's from Home Depot would work as well.
I get the IE error once in a while too...frustrating isn't it ?
Logan J

 

[Anemoneman]

That's a green brittle star alright. I had one that lost two arms in a tank crash (not mine). They grew back but were a little thinner than the others. They are definitly carnivores. I never saw it eat my fish, they just came up missing. Shrimp too. I saw it eat flakes, brine shrimp, and formula one. Ate a lot of sand fauna too. Amphipod population went up after I get rid ot it. Haven't had any disappearing fish either. If you can't figure out where a missing fish went, you have been warned. Every tank's different though. Good luck.

Mark

 

[New2Salt]

Aww I didn't want to know that, I guess that would explain why we had a hole dug in the side of the sand this morning, wonder who he was after :/ Now the problem of trying to get someone to take him

 

[AmekaAquatics.C]

The HOB refugium do they come with a light or does it rely on the light provided by the tank?

No, however CPR sells a light that works very well for them.
It's part of the "JBJ Lighting" line.

There are two different ones they suggestion.
One is a "clamp on" which allows you to raise the light above the top of the regugium, the other sort of just sits on it. I prefer (and use) the Clamp-On. A few online companies have it, we've got it over @AA, here. I like this once, also, because I keep mangroves in my refugium, and the adjustment bars on this unit allow me to move it away enough to not burn my little mangroves

 

[New2Salt]

I've been reading about the mangroves, will have to read more about them thanks for the link and suggestions!

 

[AmekaAquatics.C]

I've been reading about the mangroves, will have to read more about them thanks for the link and suggestions!

Yeah, I love my little mangroves

Almost as much fun (long term) as any soft-coral development

 

[Salt4Us]

Hi Logan,

Which make/model refugium do you have for your 10gal? I'm curious what the overflow box looks like & if it's only on certain make/model HOB refugiums. The one my wife mentions does look like it has a overflow box.

The one we are getting is the CPR Aquatic Aquafuge External Hang-On Refugium.

Thanks Logan

John

 

[New2Salt]

Curious, I'm getting a refugium it's a CPR hang on back wondering how much sand should I put in it?? It's going to be 12" x 4" x 12" thought I was going to get it for $39.00 thought it was too good to be true, turned out to be the inside one and that one he wanted over a 100 bucks for it, told him we could get it online cheaper, he matched the price of 89.95, not bad, didn't have to pay shipping. Now we are getting new powerheads and going to set them up right, I just want to set up the refuguim right too. Any suggestions? Thanks!

 

[loganj]

Well, I built mine. I kinda looks like the CPR I guess except that it uses an internal overflow and a U tube with the PH inside the fuge returning water to the tank. I have about 3" of fine sand in mine. It is full of pods and I'm starting to see worms in the substrate. It originally housed the heater and skimmer as well as having a fuge compartment...kinda an all-in-one deal. I think there are pics of it in the DIY forum.
Logan J

 

[New2Salt]

I really liked what you built, but we went with the hang on back, doesn't have enough room for the skimmer unfortunately or heater for that matter, can we use or should we use sand from our existing tank or go out and buy more, I plan on doing macro algae later on, but am more concerned on getting the pods going again so that the blennies will have some, if I add sand from the exisiting tank will the pods re-emerge or should I buy another bag of live sand and use that, we will be putting some small pieces of live rock that was in the tank too. Look forward to your reply thanks!

 

[loganj]

I just added some sugar size sand from the LFS (dry in the bag) and I have a swarm of pods in there after a couple of months. The LR should have some on it also...anytime I pull a piece out of my tank, I'll always see a few squirming around on it. You might use some dry sand in there and just add a little from your tank so you don't disturb the sand bed too much. Like everything else, it'll take some time. Once they get started though, they'll grow like crazy with nothing eating them.
Logan J

 

[New2Salt]

Thanks Logan, you've been a huge help for us, that's what we will do then, we'll get some dry sand tomorrow, setting up our new ph's tonight and got a wave timer so hopefully we'll be in business! Thanks!

 

[New2Salt]

Ok, I'm going to look stupid here an post this, had the HOB CPR fuge running for close to a week now, and I can see a lot of little critters in there which I'm really excited about, we don't have any macroalgae in there yet, still waiting for the light to come, but did get a beautiful piece of maiden's hair that is in our main tank, that's besides the point, my question, do they just make their way out of the fuge and in to our tank? I know it's obvious but I thought I'd ask. Thanks!