Refugiums and Pods

[usmcmarc]

I have a few questions. I want to start to culture copepods. I have read some articles and communicated via e-mail with Dr. Adelaide Rhodes about this. From what she says, I can culture pods in a tupperware container. But thats not the question here.

When you ave a refugium and you culture pods in it, how do the pods get to the main tank? Through the pump and tubing? Or do you have to harvest them and manually place into the main tank?

The reason I ask is that I have a Fluval 405 thats packed with liverock rubble. Whenever I open it to change out my Purigen, I see TON's of pods swimming around. Can I assume this is like a refugium (w/o the macro algae)?


I'm also a little confused about the culturing, because two of the articles I have read seem to conflict.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...3/breeder2.htm

This article says to add aeration and enough phyto to tint the water green, and add more phyto as the color fades


http://www.oceanpods.com/faq.html#culture

While this article says to use "with very little aeration until you start to see the numbers increase" and to feed tiny amounts of flake food and
Add little food, to reduce the chance that bacteria will take over. When I say a little, I mean you can hardly see a tint in the water with the algae, and just a few grams of flake food at a time."

So one says aeration right away with what I would consider alot of phyto.

The other says very little aeration to start and only enough phyto to barely tint the water.

Anyone have an opinion or experience with this?

 

[fijiwigi]

I just payed attention to my refugium today and saw massive amounts of pods. I have never seen them before. I sent some Chaeto to MSbeanCtr and she said I had some but I didn't believe it. Today I saw like 20 at least. My girlfriend said she saw a few inside my tank but I have not seen any in my main display yet. I think it has to do with when I am looking at my tank. Not really related to your question but my only experience with pods. I am thinking my fuge will have 100s but collecting them would be next to impossible. I am sure they make there way up the pump to my tank. I just have yet to see them but my girlfriend did.

 

[Ziggy953]

Pods can and will travel up into your display via your pump. Copepods are nearly invisible to the naked eye, most of the pods we see in our fuges are mysid or mysis shrimp amphipods and other larger pods. If you have LR and good water and have had your tank established for 6 months or more you will have copepods. I've not looked into the culturing of pods because I have a large refugium on my system If you have pods in one section of your system you will have them in all sections.

 

[land locked]

I have always wondered the same thing. Thanks for asking Marc, I also enjoyed the info. I too have a huge display refugium with tons of pods. Ziggy thanks for your info too. I have one question to add to Marc's comment about the LR in the filter system. I did the same think sort of I got rid of the bio ball and added LR rubble, but I had someone ask me the other day how does it stay alive without light. I could not answer that. I do not have any light over my sump but my chemistry is spot one perfect with no fluctuation. I and attribute it to the rubble. Am I crazy
for thinking about putting a light over my filter box for the LR rubble? I figure my pods would love that.

 

[Ziggy953]

The bacteria that does the "filtering" doesn't need light. What needs light is the Macro Algae we put in our fuges.

 

[cmor1701d]

Marc, what is your reason for culturing pods?
I have a pod pile in a corner of my tank (broken shells, lr rubble bits, etc that is full of pods. I only see them when I sneak up on them about an hour after lights out with a red light. Then I can see them by the hundreds. I also have an abundance in my sump/fuge growing all around my macro algae.
While I don't have enough to export for sale, I have enough to keep my mandarin well fed.

As stated above the pods do make the trip from the tank to the fuge to the tank. Except of course for those that get eaten along the way or killed in the trip through the pumps. Most are so small that the trip through the pump doesn't bother them.

 

[land locked]

Thanks Ziggy.

 

[usmcmarc]

Marc, what is your reason for culturing pods?
I have a pod pile in a corner of my tank (broken shells, lr rubble bits, etc that is full of pods. I only see them when I sneak up on them about an hour after lights out with a red light. Then I can see them by the hundreds. I also have an abundance in my sump/fuge growing all around my macro algae.
While I don't have enough to export for sale, I have enough to keep my mandarin well fed.

As stated above the pods do make the trip from the tank to the fuge to the tank. Except of course for those that get eaten along the way or killed in the trip through the pumps. Most are so small that the trip through the pump doesn't bother them.

I want to add a Mandarin. I only have a 29Gal BioCube. So I'm trying to be sure I can support a good enough pod population before I even consider the Mandarin.

This is my plan:

I'm going to try a combo of both articles suggestions. I got a large tupperware container (16 Cups), I will throw a little LR rubble into it (maybe 1 lb), an air line, some cheato (which I will need to acquire form someone who has some extra..anyone?) and put a small light over it. Dump a bottle of live pods into it.

I'll add a little DT's phyto to it, maybe 5ml once a week?

I'll do a 50% PWC on it weekly, putting that water into the main which should transfer pods over with it.

Think this will do? Or am I going to need some sort of filtration?

 

[cmor1701d]

Good luck. I know it can be done, but I understand it is a PITA to keep it up. A mandarin eats a lot of pods if you can't find one that eats frozen mysis.

Check out the site for Tigger Pod culturing and Ocean Pod culturing too.

You may need to keep more than one culture going to keep a mandari fed.

 

[pat8you]

I have a pod question i thought i would toss in. In my daydreaming i was thinking it would be killer to upgrade to like a 55 or 75 and i have always loved mandarins. I've heard from several people that they will eat you out of house and home when it comes to pods and need a 90+ with plenty of rock to keep them happy. So.. to the question

Lets say (in my little made up lets say ... 75) i added two or three bottles of the tigger or ocean pods shortly after it finished cycling and then waited a couple months for the tank to become stable enough to keep a mandarin. Is that going to be better then adding those two or three bottles just a couple weeks before i added a mandarin. Does having a bigger colony when you put the fish in make a difference or just the size of the tank and LR is the bottom line on the size of pod population you can keep? Not sure if that made any since at all hopefully someone understands what i just said.

 

[Ziggy953]

I'm not sure about the reporduction of the pods you buy such as tiger pods...I wouldn't suggest putting a mandarin in a tank that is less then 1 year old and has 1.5 to 2 lbs of LR per gallon. Also having a fuge on the system is just about a must have. If you are lucky enough to get a mandarin to eat something other then live food then you may be ok. They are difficult fish to keep. It is much better to put them into a mature system with a lot of LR and a fuge supplying lots of pods. Those Tiger pods can get very expensive!

 

[cmor1701d]

Pat and Marc,

Tiger pods are only 1 type of copepod. Mandarins like variety. The Ocean Pods at least are 3 different varieties. I bought a detrivore kit from ISPF, Inland Aquatics and a buy in Philly who occasionly sells a kit on eBay. The eBay kit I got had the most variety of pods and was the best detrivore kit around.
I also had pods from my LR.

You need to build up the pod population to a sustainable level which is why it is recommened not to get a mandarin for 7 - 8 months. You can have a mandarin in a 75 or smaller tank IF you have a large refugium a large sump with a large pod pile etc.

I still would not attempt to keep one in tank smaller than a 75, though there are those that keep them in 55's and even 29's. I don't know how long the mandarin's have been surviving in those smaller tanks, so I won't comment.

 

[usmcmarc]

Well, Here it is. Decided to forgo the cheato and just go with this. Threw a little aragonite sand, a bunch of LR rubble (BTW, this was not REAL LR. It was dried out, so no unexpected guests), and two airstones on opposite sides. Added fresh SW and presto....mini fuge! I will add the DT's phyto tomorrow when the Ocean Pods arrive. I'll dump half the bottle in here, the other half in the back of my tank where I added another bunch of LR Rubble.

Between the Fluval packed w/ LR rubble, the back of my tank packed w/ LR rubble and my quasi-fuge to cultivate pods. I think I should be ok.

 

[cmor1701d]

Give them a couple of months to produce a stable population before adding the mandarin. Please keep us posted on your progress. I am hoping you have a succesful outcome.

 

[Ziggy953]

I hope it works out for you for sure!

I did something similar to this but I had it plumbed into my system. I put it above the tank so the pods would have a better chance of getting into the tank. I'll try and dig up the thread for it.

I found it. Way down the list in the DIY section. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f20/pod-breeder-97250.html