Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater Reef Aquaria
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:01 PM   #41
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
carey's Avatar

POTM Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Deltona, Florida
Posts: 20,962
This has been a very interesting thread to say the least. LOL But informative as well.

For my tanks, I never clean the sandbed. I may on ocassion lightly swoop over the surface but thats about it. I mostly have DSB's in my tanks as well. I have found that with my circulation of water I dont often have much if anything to vacuum up.

If your vacuum thing into the sand arent you releasing all the nasty gunk that is built up in there? Like nitrates for instance? I also dont have any sand sifting stars so my sandbed is pretty much as it was when i added it.

Just wondering if I am doing the right thing. I also always advise people not to muck around in their sandbeds so I wanna be sure thats correct advice.

Thanks guys for the entertaining read thus far. Feels like I'm in college and have a massive technical reading assignment. LOL
__________________

__________________
180g Reef - 60g Rimless Reef -90G FOWLR- 125g Malawi Cichlids- 40b REEF- 34g Fresh Planted-working on- 20L FOWLR- working on
I have a mix of many different saltwater fish amongst my tanks, but I love my Tangs most of all.
carey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 03:03 PM   #42
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
needmorecowbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: pittsburgh
Posts: 3,638
Can't.. Read.. Anymore...

Ugh, this was a lot, but very informative. Obviously there is no direct answer to this subject and as always, there's more than one way to accomplish the same thing. I personally am tired of dealing with a sandbed and will probably do an sps only with no sand next time around.. Just seems a lot easier.
__________________

needmorecowbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 03:06 PM   #43
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Schism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lima, Ohio
Posts: 2,093
Renegade,

I think we agree overall about the subject, some minors things we have some different views but nothing wrong with that. Also this has been a great way to learn a new thing or 2 also.

Here is the one thing im not fully rapping my head around. Yes macro algae is a great form of phosphate and nitrate removal, however im unsure how you think these macro's are pulling phosphates out of your sand bed. We established phosphate in the sand bed will bind to sand, and under these conditions we also established sand and a definite lifespan based on the amount of phosphate it can bind/hold. So how is this happening where it becomes unbound regularly from the sand and freed from the sand bed to be taken up by macro algae. This is my biggest sticking point because technically the phosphate could remain bound in the sand forever.

Also as stated in the articles, the leeching process is slow and will not result in large amounts of phosphate being release from the sand. So under this logic im forced to assume that macro algae is not removing many phosphates from your sand bed. Maybe you could explain this for me if im missing something.
__________________
29g Mixed Reef, 150w 14k Phoenix MH w/ Moonlights, Reef Octopus BH1000 HOB Skimmer, Ecotech Vortech MP10es, ReefKeeper Lite (Plus), PH Probe, Temp Probe, ATO, Carbon/GFO Reactor.
Schism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 03:17 PM   #44
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Schism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lima, Ohio
Posts: 2,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by carey

If your vacuum thing into the sand arent you releasing all the nasty gunk that is built up in there? Like nitrates for instance? I also dont have any sand sifting stars so my sandbed is pretty much as it was when i added it.
Well if you siphon your sand bed on a set schedule then really you wont have much of that nasty gunk laying there to begin with. The problem with touching sand beds left for long periods untouched is the build up of noxious gases such as hydrogen sulfide.

If you wished to begin cleaning your bed i would recommend starting slowly and only the first 2" max should probably be touched. Doing this in 20% portions will help avoid any large gas releases the few times being siphoned. After this the bottom layers can be siphoned. Again its recommended to do small portions at a time to avoid large gas release and to avoid disturbing the entire denitrification of the sand bed at the same time. If that makes sense.

For people that are having nitrate/phosphate issues while running a DSB this is what I would suggest.
__________________
29g Mixed Reef, 150w 14k Phoenix MH w/ Moonlights, Reef Octopus BH1000 HOB Skimmer, Ecotech Vortech MP10es, ReefKeeper Lite (Plus), PH Probe, Temp Probe, ATO, Carbon/GFO Reactor.
Schism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 03:20 PM   #45
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Schism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lima, Ohio
Posts: 2,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco V
I'm a newbie here , all this has me confused . The end result was that a DSB should be cleaned but not all of it , correct ?
All of it can be cleaned, however to reduce impact on denitrification and microfuana it should be done in smaller amounts over longer periods of time. Doing this will ensure reproduction of lost microfuana and oxygen to become depleted again from the disturbed layers.
__________________
29g Mixed Reef, 150w 14k Phoenix MH w/ Moonlights, Reef Octopus BH1000 HOB Skimmer, Ecotech Vortech MP10es, ReefKeeper Lite (Plus), PH Probe, Temp Probe, ATO, Carbon/GFO Reactor.
Schism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 03:26 PM   #46
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Schism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lima, Ohio
Posts: 2,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by crister13
Ok, I have a 4-5" dsb but my sand is sugar sized grain. How should I clean it? It ALWAYS gets sucked up.
Sugar sized grain is the hardest to siphon buy ive found a way of dealing with it. The trick is using a siphon with a small diameter hose ( easier to pinch, and easier to control slow flow.

Pinching off the line before sand is sucked ip the line will allow it to fall and tumble releasing the detritus. When this happens, allow flow again momentarily, the detritus will suck up and the must again pinch the line to stop any sand from being sucked up. Its very difficult to explain and paint a picture. I may just have to do a video to show. However that might not be till friday or so when im due for a PWC.
__________________
29g Mixed Reef, 150w 14k Phoenix MH w/ Moonlights, Reef Octopus BH1000 HOB Skimmer, Ecotech Vortech MP10es, ReefKeeper Lite (Plus), PH Probe, Temp Probe, ATO, Carbon/GFO Reactor.
Schism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 03:33 PM   #47
AA Team Emeritus
 
Wy Renegade's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 4,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco V View Post
I'm a newbie here , all this has me confused . The end result was that a DSB should be cleaned but not all of it , correct ?
Well I'm sorry to confuse you further, and Schism's answer will probably differ from mine, but the correct answer is that no your sandbed doesn't necessarily need to be cleaned, but yes it needs maintained. If you choose to employ the mechanical method of siphoning to try and reduce the accumulation of biodebris then you should vaccum no more than the top 1" to 1 1/2" of the sandbed. Do not vaccum by dragging, vaccum by pushing in, sucking up the gunk, and then lifting and repushing the tube back into the sandbed. Dragging will simply stir up the gunk and sand and cause it become suspended in the water column.

So what is the alternative? Biological cleaning by maintaining a healthy and diverse population of micro and macrofauna within your sandbed. How do you do this? Consistent exchanges of livestand and the benefical biofauna (need to be introduced multiple times per year - not a establish and forget it methodology). It can be done between tanks if you have multiple tanks, between friends or reef clubs, between you and a LFS (great source of diversity - every shipment has the potential to introduce new critters into the sandbed fauna - unfortantely occassionally you may get some not so great things), or by a sand exchange via shipping. For macrofauna, what you want are organisms that stir and consume debris, but not those that stir and consume the very fauna that you are trying to maintain. The difference is subtle, but it does exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crister13 View Post
Ok, I have a 4-5" dsb but my sand is sugar sized grain. How should I clean it? It ALWAYS gets sucked up.
I'm sure Schism will probably be better able to answer your question, as this is more his area than mine. However with sugar-sized simply skimming the upper surface first to eliminate things trapped on the surface is how I would start and then most likely you have to use something similar to the pinching method Schism described to prevent your sand grains from joining the exodus.
__________________
the Bog

"Listen to some of these guys talk, and it's like they were born from their momma's belly with a fishkeeping encyclopedia in one hand and an API kit in the other" (unrevealed).
Wy Renegade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 03:33 PM   #48
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Hondatek's Avatar



POTM Champion
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 3,969
Ok so my question is I have a dsb and I just do the top inch or so every pwc. In your opinion shism is that correct?
__________________
Feed your Filtration
Give it to Porc Chop he'll eat anything!!!!!
"This is my tank and these other fish just live in it"
^ Quoted from Porc Chop^
Hondatek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 03:45 PM   #49
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Schism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lima, Ohio
Posts: 2,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondatek
Ok so my question is I have a dsb and I just do the top inch or so every pwc. In your opinion shism is that correct?
Sure, what you are doing by siphoning the first inch will overall reduce the amount of organic matter that your sand bed needs to break down/convert/consume.

You could also take it a step further and siphon the lower portions in small sections over long periods of time. For example say 25% twice a year.
__________________
29g Mixed Reef, 150w 14k Phoenix MH w/ Moonlights, Reef Octopus BH1000 HOB Skimmer, Ecotech Vortech MP10es, ReefKeeper Lite (Plus), PH Probe, Temp Probe, ATO, Carbon/GFO Reactor.
Schism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 03:46 PM   #50
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Hondatek's Avatar



POTM Champion
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 3,969
Ok well I just started doing it and my bed was unmaintained for a while so I'm just starting slow to avoid anything bad happening . Thanks
__________________

__________________
Feed your Filtration
Give it to Porc Chop he'll eat anything!!!!!
"This is my tank and these other fish just live in it"
^ Quoted from Porc Chop^
Hondatek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sand, sand bed, siphon

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off








» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.