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Old 05-26-2013, 07:31 PM   #141
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all this talk abotu stray voltage got me curious so one night i went to test my tank and i got 21.6Vac , so the following day i went to test at a set time, you know what i got .5Vac. turned off the powerbar that supplies power to all my pumps and heater, it dropped .1Vac.

then i remembered about the expriments we all did in science classes when we were kids about the lemon battery and lighting up a light with a lemon.

my hypotheses is that something related to the water chemistry is causing what apears to be leaked or stray voltages in the water and ones a probe is added you are able to cause a current to push through it when there is some sort of resistive load connected. coul,d the addition of a new pump cause a change in chemistry in the water? you bet it could, more surface aggitation can cause an increase or decrease in pH or an increase of some sort of chemical resedue from manufacturing that could cause a varience in the water that may make it slightly more acidic.


i do not have the means to fully prove this with experiments but like i stated one night i tested all and got 21Vac to ground the next day near nothing, which leads me to believe that this voltage isn't coming from any electric devices but possibly someplace else. when you think of all the chemicals and elements added to our salt mixes and the chemical make up of the anode and cathod of a battery you may get the idea that the possibilities of creating a sort of battery out of saltwater may be a possibility

if someone has the means to take this experiment further i would liek to know the outcome
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:50 PM   #142
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This is a valid explanation to me:


Originally Posted by Jadinop
Stray voltage is not caused from a failing device.

Stray voltage is an induced voltage caused by a spinning magnet (impeller for example) that is submerged in saltwater. To put it simply, a submerged pump with a spinning impeller acts as a small generator. Stray (induced) voltage has low to no current behind it and is easily handled by a ground probe. Many pumps with two prong plugs will cause stray voltage due to the lack of a grounding shield like the 3 prong pumps have.

Leaking or shorting voltage is caused by a failing item like a heater or pump. This voltage has A/C current that is being supplied by the wall socket. This type of voltage is dangerous and cannot be fixed by a ground probe. In this case, a ground probe completes the circuit and causes a bigger problem.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:23 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregcoyote View Post
This is a valid explanation to me:


Originally Posted by Jadinop
Stray voltage is not caused from a failing device.

Stray voltage is an induced voltage caused by a spinning magnet (impeller for example) that is submerged in saltwater. To put it simply, a submerged pump with a spinning impeller acts as a small generator. Stray (induced) voltage has low to no current behind it and is easily handled by a ground probe. Many pumps with two prong plugs will cause stray voltage due to the lack of a grounding shield like the 3 prong pumps have.

Leaking or shorting voltage is caused by a failing item like a heater or pump. This voltage has A/C current that is being supplied by the wall socket. This type of voltage is dangerous and cannot be fixed by a ground probe. In this case, a ground probe completes the circuit and causes a bigger problem.
Here is another easy experiment to prove the theory of that author totally false.
Get a small container filled with salt water and bring it next to your tank close to one of your power heads. Get the voltage reading on that container and notice there is nothing to it. Then submerge just a portion of the electrical cord of that power head into the small container. Notice that you now get that stray voltage on that small container. I measured from about 0.5 volts with nothing in it and went up to 10 volts as soon as I submerge the cord.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:26 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregcoyote View Post
This is a valid explanation to me:


Originally Posted by Jadinop
Stray voltage is not caused from a failing device.

Stray voltage is an induced voltage caused by a spinning magnet (impeller for example) that is submerged in saltwater. To put it simply, a submerged pump with a spinning impeller acts as a small generator. Stray (induced) voltage has low to no current behind it and is easily handled by a ground probe. Many pumps with two prong plugs will cause stray voltage due to the lack of a grounding shield like the 3 prong pumps have.

Leaking or shorting voltage is caused by a failing item like a heater or pump. This voltage has A/C current that is being supplied by the wall socket. This type of voltage is dangerous and cannot be fixed by a ground probe. In this case, a ground probe completes the circuit and causes a bigger problem.

yes but a generator requires something such as a coil to breakt the magnetic lines of flux generated by the spinning magnet, the water is around it and does not really break this cutting action caused by the rotor like a stator does which is wrapped in coils, which i was trying to say in the other thread. the water may be conductive but it is all around the rotor and does not in theory break the magnetic field that will take this alternating current from end to end the way a generator does.

water also does not conduct a magnetic field. water is still an insolator weather it has the potencial to allow current to flow or not

which is why i do not believe in this stray voltage business that it comes from the pumps, and from my tests on my tank it prove that at one point i could have voltage and at another point i'll have next to nothing. with all pumps running the same at these points.

i can see the moving ions in the saltwater creating more of a charge then the rotors on the pumps. these moving ions beign created by the flow generated by the pumps but i can't see the rotor actually generating these. i need scientific proof to tell me other wise which no one has been able to provide, things that don't make sense to me have only been said

http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.co...tors_Work.aspx
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:27 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gti_Leo View Post
all this talk abotu stray voltage got me curious so one night i went to test my tank and i got 21.6Vac , so the following day i went to test at a set time, you know what i got .5Vac. turned off the powerbar that supplies power to all my pumps and heater, it dropped .1Vac.

then i remembered about the expriments we all did in science classes when we were kids about the lemon battery and lighting up a light with a lemon.

my hypotheses is that something related to the water chemistry is causing what apears to be leaked or stray voltages in the water and ones a probe is added you are able to cause a current to push through it when there is some sort of resistive load connected. coul,d the addition of a new pump cause a change in chemistry in the water? you bet it could, more surface aggitation can cause an increase or decrease in pH or an increase of some sort of chemical resedue from manufacturing that could cause a varience in the water that may make it slightly more acidic.


i do not have the means to fully prove this with experiments but like i stated one night i tested all and got 21Vac to ground the next day near nothing, which leads me to believe that this voltage isn't coming from any electric devices but possibly someplace else. when you think of all the chemicals and elements added to our salt mixes and the chemical make up of the anode and cathod of a battery you may get the idea that the possibilities of creating a sort of battery out of saltwater may be a possibility

if someone has the means to take this experiment further i would liek to know the outcome
Your test lead was not having a good contact to ground when you did the 2nd test.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:28 PM   #146
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Your test lead was not having a good contact to ground when you did the 2nd time.

sure was i made sure of it by removign it from the water. and just a reminder it was the bare copper i was grounded to
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:43 PM   #147
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Good data here;


http://angel-strike.com/aquarium/GFI...alDetails.html
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:21 PM   #148
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First of all, the author is talking about static voltage. Static voltage is in a form of a Direct Current and has no frequency. The example of static is when you rub an object like the carpet, that object will store a static voltage. Once you discharge it, it drops to 0 volts and stays on that state. The author has a misconception of the stray voltage in salt water tank because it is an Alternating Curren (AC). Your DC meter will not pick it up. In other words it is not a STATIC voltage. I can go on and on but I would rather not. The previous experiment I am suggesting is a "black and white" proof.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:04 AM   #149
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just did another test now lights out 25.8Vac, turned off all pumps and powerheads 25.8Vac.

so unless dor some reason power voltage is still getting to my accessories dispite the power bar being off i doubt any sort of power is leaking from anywhere, and i'm leaning to my hypothesis more so being water chemistry
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:46 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Gti_Leo View Post
just did another test now lights out 25.8Vac, turned off all pumps and powerheads 25.8Vac.

so unless dor some reason power voltage is still getting to my accessories dispite the power bar being off i doubt any sort of power is leaking from anywhere, and i'm leaning to my hypothesis more so being water chemistry
Here is the explanation to your readings.
You are in Canada and I believe you have a 240 vac power source to your home. The transformer outside your home is in Delta to Delta (480 to 240). That means the 2 wires on your power cord are both hot with respect to ground. Unlike in the US, we have only one side being hot. In your case, when you turn off the switch, the other wire is still hot and that is where your stray voltage is coming from. You have to unplug your power strip from the wall receptacle to isolate your power from the tank.
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