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Old 05-27-2013, 09:28 PM   #161
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My speciality is pretty exotic. I can wire a server cabinet, but thats about it. The stray voltage thing is still being explained on multiple threads across multiple reef web sites. It is an interesting conversation.

is your experties more in electronics? is this why you imported taotronic LED fixtures?

but as far as stray voltage, of course there are conversations but no real proven facts just theories why some are reading a voltage in their tanks.

i just can't see it based on what i know abotu eletricity that a pump or a water resistive 300v 105degree C rubber cable insulation would degrade in the our fish tanks. there is just not enough heat generated that would potentially cause this to happen. so i just can't believe it until it is proven to me by lab tests, not just some guy stickign a volt meter in water and touching it to ground.

i kind of want to get a ocilliscope just to see what frequency this "stray" voltage is to see if it is really being generated by the pumps or heaters
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:39 PM   #162
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I am handy with electronics, but most of my work has been to use satellites to restore emergency communication services after a disaster. 911 systems and radio dispatch systems via satellite. Not much to do with fish.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:43 PM   #163
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lol well of course not, so you're more a systems tech, but i recall you sayign you were an eletrical engineer or soem sort of engineer
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:58 PM   #164
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I studied mechanical and aerospace engineering in college, hence the satellite stuff. I do own the company, going for 30 years now. Owned fish stores to get thru college. I build and fabricate emergency and remote comm stuff all the time, so the fish hobby is to unwind from that. Our customers are state and federal agencies. it can get pretty intense. It did give me access to some Chinese LED manufacturers who we buy high power LED emergency lighting from. They also produce fish tank fixtures that look and work almost identically with the Taotronics unit.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:01 PM   #165
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ahhh no kidding workign for government agencies can get intense, our hobby really is a good way to unwind though.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:14 PM   #166
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the fish have a higher resistive value sure but when the current is flowing through the water its still flowign through them because they are part of the water, the same reason why if we are standign in water and get shocked the potential for death is VERY high. the current will travel everywhere in the water which is why water and electricity don't mix. if there is a short in the tank, kiss your aquarium goodbye, all bacteria all live stock, gone. there was an episode of LA fishguy were jim had a glass heater break and short out (in the sump) and wiped out the whole system. the current will flow through the water in the return and in the drains, if there is a conecting path it'l follow it. just think of a wire, it'll follow the path, more current will take the path of least resistance back to the source but it'll still flow all over the place and will make your like a living hell. GFI which trips at 5milliamps will minimize the death but if no GFI then you're looking at a short circuit current of 10000 in one second flowign through that system, and that sir will fry anything and anyone in contact with the water.


a tingling feelign you say, i find that hard to believe but who am i to say. if you're gettign a shock from the water a grounding probe will cause more issues and you would know it as a shock because it'll be more then a tingle
You should have read what the author of this thread was experiencing with regards to stray voltage. You are mixing STRAY and SHORT. They are 2 different things. It is synonymous to mild and extreme.

Did you say the LA fishguy had a Ground Probe in his tank? If so don't you think the GFCI could have prevented the calamity? A short is an extreme condition but can happen. Regardless if there was a Ground Probe or not a short circuit has a detrimental effect on the tank inhabitants. If can also change the water composition and possibly become toxic.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:39 PM   #167
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You should have read what the author of this thread was experiencing with regards to stray voltage. You are mixing STRAY and SHORT. It is synonymous to mild and extreme. They are 2 different things. Did you say the LA fishguy had a Ground Probe in his tank? If so don't you think the GFCI could have prevented the calamity? A short is an extreme condition but can happen. Regardless if there was a Ground Probe or not a short circuit has a detrimental effect on the tank inhabitants. If will change the water composition and become toxic.
exactly and to get any sort of current would make it a short, if there was a stray voltage the flow to ground would be a path and would cause a circuit and a path for a current to flow. so you whole ohms law would fall under this. current = voltage /resistance.

you've stated the same thign in the last thread and still are gettign what i'm saying. if there is a path to ground you are closing a circuit and closing a circuit makes a path for amperage to flow.

if there was any sort of leak through a less the addiquit cable insulation this is a short, in some way the potential energy traveling in that conductor is makign its way into the water, therefore its a short. its not creatign a differnt source of power, its the same source at the same frequency at the same point in time, therefore again its a short.

in gregs input of the spinning rotor magnet generating power this would be a different source altogether, but this theory i find even less plausable then yours as you need something to catch this magnetic feild and take it back from one spot carry it through a load and return which it is not doing because there is nothing in the aquarium that will catch the charge.

i've done my tests and i'm still getting not voltage reading during the day and a reading at night, which leaves me to believe its water chemestry, and i could see the small harmonics slightly agitating the water and chaning the chemestry in your little bowl test which could give you a reading.there is something going on other then "leaking" voltage from a cord going on for me to get my results, i just don't know what and you refuse to understand the concepts i'm putting forth and the reasons why i do not fully believe your theory based on my experienses in my field of work

and remember parts sold in the USA and canada have to go through testing UL and CSA approvals before deemed safe for use. if you've bought your pumps at a LFS you should check for the UL approval which, approves safe operation and has been tested. things like these have been egineered for one purpous, to be submerged in water, and to leak the way you are saying would cause injury worth sueing.

what you are sayign is these things are not engineered for safe use and that anything we buy is "use at own risk"
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:13 AM   #168
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If you still insist that stray voltage is a short then I believe we won't ever reconcile on this subject. I am sure you believe that when a coil is enclosed with a conducting material like metal it will stop any induction outside that enclosure. Water is a good conductor and it will even prevent any radio signal to radiate outside its surface. Same thing I was referring to the power head under water. Anyway, it's been a good discussion on this topic and I respect your point of view. As long as we both agree that GFCI is more effective then I am good with that lol
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:54 AM   #169
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The spinning induction theory was in a posting I found interesting. My best bet is it is stray voltage leaking from cheap two wire power cables. It is incredible to me that it is legal to run essentially lamp cord with 120VAC into a saltwater bath you reach into. Thank heavens for GFI's.
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:21 AM   #170
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The spinning induction theory was in a posting I found interesting. My best bet is it is stray voltage leaking from cheap two wire power cables. It is incredible to me that it is legal to run essentially lamp cord with 120VAC into a saltwater bath you reach into. Thank heavens for GFI's.
+1 It's because we speak of same language Greg lol. I used to maintain the Radio Navigation Equipment at the airport before I got my BSEE
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