Anyone dosing strontium? The test kit is a bit expensive, and I wouldn't dose without testing... just wondering if it is worth getting the kit to see whether or not my Sr levels are optimal. I do regular water changes and use Red Sea Coral pro, so should my Sr levels be fine?
Strontium Dosing
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Phranque
Aquarium Advice Addict
Nobody I know even bothers testing or dosing strontium.... I had researched this one myself, and the test kits either aren't very accurate, or can give false results due to influence from other ions, leading to overdoses. I wouldn't bother.... from my understanding, regular pwc's keep strontium well in parameters.
Spotted
Aquarium Advice Freak
I kinda agree. I was dosing and my coraline exploded. The directions say to dose every 4 days and I noticed after every dose, the color would explode. I recently ran out of it and my green coraline is starting to bleach. I need to pick up some more. It was actually stromtium magnesium, the Kent brand mixture.
Marco V
Aquarium Advice Freak
My wife also notices the coral bigger after I dose Sr. Because I don't have the test I dose below recommendations on bottle .
Phranque
Aquarium Advice Addict
Maybe a little more to this than I thought............. Off to the interwebs
ccCapt
SW 20 & Over Club
I never dosed, but I also never tested for it.
Lots of good info here....
Aquarium Chemistry: Strontium and the Reef Aquarium — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
"That 15 ppm strontium matches my measured value for the Instant Ocean salt mix that I use."
[I also use IO so I expect my strontium levels are similar. Sr levels in natural seawater are 8ppm (Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com).]
"My recommendation is to maintain strontium in reef aquaria at something approaching natural levels. There is no evidence that strontium at these levels in detrimental to any marine organism (although it might be). There is strong scientific evidence that some organisms need strontium, albeit not the organisms that most reef keepers maintain. Finally, there is anecdotal evidence from a number of advanced aquarists that depleted strontium is detrimental to the growth of corals that many aquarists maintain.
How is one to maintain natural levels? That, of course, necessitates a suitable test for strontium. Perhaps the test kits are suitable for this purpose. If not, sending a sample out to a lab might be a reasonable alternative for some aquarists. If the result comes back in the 6-15 ppm range, there is not likely any action that needs to be taken. If the level is higher than 15 ppm, reducing the strontium levels via water changes with a suitable salt mix may be the best method. If strontium levels are below 6 ppm, adding a strontium supplement may be in order.
Remember: in my aquarium without any recent strontium additions, strontium was already elevated above natural levels. I would not like to see it get any higher. Consequently, adding a supplement in the absence of knowing the strontium levels is not advisable."
Lots of good info here....
Aquarium Chemistry: Strontium and the Reef Aquarium — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
"That 15 ppm strontium matches my measured value for the Instant Ocean salt mix that I use."
[I also use IO so I expect my strontium levels are similar. Sr levels in natural seawater are 8ppm (Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com).]
"My recommendation is to maintain strontium in reef aquaria at something approaching natural levels. There is no evidence that strontium at these levels in detrimental to any marine organism (although it might be). There is strong scientific evidence that some organisms need strontium, albeit not the organisms that most reef keepers maintain. Finally, there is anecdotal evidence from a number of advanced aquarists that depleted strontium is detrimental to the growth of corals that many aquarists maintain.
How is one to maintain natural levels? That, of course, necessitates a suitable test for strontium. Perhaps the test kits are suitable for this purpose. If not, sending a sample out to a lab might be a reasonable alternative for some aquarists. If the result comes back in the 6-15 ppm range, there is not likely any action that needs to be taken. If the level is higher than 15 ppm, reducing the strontium levels via water changes with a suitable salt mix may be the best method. If strontium levels are below 6 ppm, adding a strontium supplement may be in order.
Remember: in my aquarium without any recent strontium additions, strontium was already elevated above natural levels. I would not like to see it get any higher. Consequently, adding a supplement in the absence of knowing the strontium levels is not advisable."
So it seems this is far more complicated than I initially thought. One of the problems I see is the lack of studies done on the absence of Sr in a reef system ad opposed to too much.
It is hard to draw conclusions as to whether Sr is actually beneficial to a system or if it is just present and therefore found in the skeletons of our coral since it so easily finds itself replacing Ca ions during the building process. It also seems that with elevated alk levels it might be more likely that Sr could be low in a reef tank when compared to natural seawater because of abiotic precipitation. But again that might not mean anything because of the lack of scientific evidence that Sr is in any way beneficial to coral and is anything more than a surrogate for Ca ions. Just because it is there does not make it essential.
There seems to be a plethora of anecdotal evidence that says depressed Sr levels slows coral and calcareous algae growth and health, but I can find nothing about the biological process that would make this ring true. It is interesting that with all of the Sr additives on the market, no one has provided scientific evidence of what happens in a reef system when Sr bottoms out (at least not that I can find). It is also interesting that despite the abiotic precipitation of Sr ions and the apparent use of these ions by coral and calcareous algae, some folks never experience depressed Sr levels in their tanks despite insufficient water changes to replenish the Sr in the water despite whichever salt mix they happen to be using. Where does it come from??
I am not convinced...
It is hard to draw conclusions as to whether Sr is actually beneficial to a system or if it is just present and therefore found in the skeletons of our coral since it so easily finds itself replacing Ca ions during the building process. It also seems that with elevated alk levels it might be more likely that Sr could be low in a reef tank when compared to natural seawater because of abiotic precipitation. But again that might not mean anything because of the lack of scientific evidence that Sr is in any way beneficial to coral and is anything more than a surrogate for Ca ions. Just because it is there does not make it essential.
There seems to be a plethora of anecdotal evidence that says depressed Sr levels slows coral and calcareous algae growth and health, but I can find nothing about the biological process that would make this ring true. It is interesting that with all of the Sr additives on the market, no one has provided scientific evidence of what happens in a reef system when Sr bottoms out (at least not that I can find). It is also interesting that despite the abiotic precipitation of Sr ions and the apparent use of these ions by coral and calcareous algae, some folks never experience depressed Sr levels in their tanks despite insufficient water changes to replenish the Sr in the water despite whichever salt mix they happen to be using. Where does it come from??
I am not convinced...
Gregcoyote
Aquarium Advice Addict
This is a great thread. I also have dosed strontium over the years. I also use iodine some. But I also have a high coral load. It may be my imagination, but they do seem to help a bit. Would be glad to hear what the other chemists on the forum think. I don't do the massive water changes I hear everyone else doing. For 20 years, my reef gets about a 10% water change per month. I auto-dose Kent essential elements in a very small quantity (it will certainly set off algae).
Gregcoyote
Aquarium Advice Addict
No...I'm am breaking rule #7, never dose what you can't test for. The tests for these trace elements are best done by a full blown lab. I test, using Hanna, magnesium, calcium, alkalinity...the basics. I dose the Kent product with a medical dosing meter and am conservative as it can cause an algae bloom. Iodine is added at half strength weekly,,same with strontium. At those doses, I don't think it is possible to hurt anything and the chance it will help seems worth the risk. Again, I have no documentable evidence...but I think it helps SPS growth and may help prevent soft coral crashes.
The problem is, at least from what I have read about Sr dosing, is some people have artificially high levels of Sr in a tank already, despite never adding it, and having an established tank crammed full of SPS. So if the tank already hovers at 10+ppm Sr, dosing it may not be a good thing - though it looks as if based on the article that Larry posted, the LC50 for most critters is substantially higher than you would ever see if you are doing a half dose, even if the tank was already at 10-15ppm.
I don't know much at all about iodine yet, but I have had a lot of experienced reefers tell me not to dose it. I need to reed more on it so I can understand it.
I don't know much at all about iodine yet, but I have had a lot of experienced reefers tell me not to dose it. I need to reed more on it so I can understand it.
Gregcoyote
Aquarium Advice Addict
Yeah, that's what I thought too. Been dosing this way for many years, so far so good. I would love to have access to a full printout from a mass spec. in a lab setting. Need to send a sample off and really see what is what.
I agree - this would be interesting. Really it looks like that is the only way to get a truly accurate Sr+ measurement anyway - although I am not sure the resolution matters much, as there doesn't seem to be much difference between 5-15ppm Sr.
While I haven't read a lot about I2, it looks like testing for that is fraught with even more issues and problems.
While I haven't read a lot about I2, it looks like testing for that is fraught with even more issues and problems.
Gregcoyote
Aquarium Advice Addict
Yes...it is like predicting the weather, a lot of variables. And not all reef waters are the exact same. I recommend most people don't dose as the coral load isn't near to the point anything is getting used up other than calcium. But when you read the literature, it is suggested that these elements be dosed for certain corals. At least the stuff I have read. Will ask my biologist friends and see what they say.
Phranque
Aquarium Advice Addict
I came across that same article that Larry posted, and aside from all the "possibly's & maybe's" was the fact that one of of his suppositions was "the organism wants to get rid of potentially toxic strontium and depositing it into a CaCO3 skeleton is one way to accomplish that task." What I'm reading there is that, essentially, there's the possiblity that you are poisoning your coral to encourage faster growth. It wants to get rid of it, so it builds skeletal structure quicker in an attempt to facilitate that.
Yes but again I would say there is no evidence for or against this from what I have read so far.
Phranque
Aquarium Advice Addict
Exactly. Like I said, a lot of possibly's & maybe's....... If R. H-F. doesn't even have a handle on it, then I'm inclined to leave it alone. I'm happy enough with my growth from his home made 2-part.
LOL Good point. It is crazy that something so often recommended is really not understood at all in the hobby. I am not used to that. On the FW side (my comfort zone) there aren't too many things you can say that about.
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