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Old 03-23-2004, 10:48 PM   #1
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The carbonated water dip: questions

OK, so let's say I want to try the carbonated water dip. All I saw today was club soda (no, it's not tonic water). The bottle said it contained:

Carbonated water (ok, obviously)
sodium bicarbonate - baking soda
Sodium citrate - maintains pH in bottled sodas*
sodium sulfate - not 100% sure what it does
sodium chloride - table salt

So, would this stuff be safe?

*-It's not a soda
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Old 03-23-2004, 11:58 PM   #2
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So, would this stuff be safe?
Yes, should be plenty safe, however, I would not dip the rock for a very long time, the idea is to give it a coupel or 5 minutes, then remove it and dip it in some regular SW. Make sure you mix your carbonated SW to the same temp and Salinity as your main tank
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:04 AM   #3
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I was planning on a 2-min dip at the most. I have a large rubbermaid container mixed w/ fresh SW @ 1.029 SG and it is currently at 71°F. I'm hoping the heater will have it to 80ish by morning, if not I'll temp. pull one from the display tank. I wil then add the carbonated water tomorrow, which should give it the carbonation, while lowering the SG to closer to the display. Stirring salt into the carbonated water would make it lose the fizz, so I'll just add the carbonation that way. I've got a bunch of tupperware bowls ready for any critters needing ID, the digicam is ready, the pvc glue for that leaking return line is drying up, and I think I'm all set. I don't have another container to do a SW dip after the carbonated dip...is it OK to put it in the display, or do you recommend I rinse it off with tank water first? Thanks for the help, and the idea in the first place!
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:21 AM   #4
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is it OK to put it in the display, or do you recommend I rinse it off with tank water first?
Personally, I'd rinse it, if you don't...make sure you do a water change or two over the next few days.
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Old 03-25-2004, 06:31 PM   #5
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What type of rock do you have? Fiji, Tonga, haitian, Aquacultured??? If it is Aqua cultured LR. then you will kill all of the micro-organisms and it will definitely spike your tank. providing it was shipped fresh overnite. We tested a R.O. dip for (1) minute, and it killed off the toughest animals, and most of the hundreds of other life forms on our keys rock. Was a very bad thing. I hated to see all those life forms die in front of me just to test a water dip. I know why you are doing this but it sure is hard on a good true liverock. Massive die off in our experiment, caused a spike we never before incurred. Most import rock can handle this dip because they kill 90% of all life on there rock before shipping to the U.S.A. "Ron of Triton"
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Old 03-25-2004, 06:39 PM   #6
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Hey Ron, in your tests did you use RO water, or carboinated SALTwater? From posts in the LR.com forum I am still unclear. The poster in this thread is not talking about using unsalted water, but carbonated water that is the same SG/Salinity as that of the tank. I know people that have done this type of dip on your rock with no problems, and the only time I saw any issues with LR.com LR was when it was very cold outside, just like everyone elses LR
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Old 03-25-2004, 06:39 PM   #7
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I think I missunderstood what You are doing. You are dipping in carbonated salt water. Hmmm? That just might work and keep all the life forms alive. Let me know please. If it does, then that is the best idea I've ever heard. Please keep me posted. I tried a dip in pure R/O. for (1) minute, not good.Baad very bad. thought R/O would be mild, but it was very devastating..Thanks,Ron..
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Old 03-25-2004, 06:40 PM   #8
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What are you trying to accomplish with your dip? Just to get rid of mantis shrimps?

An alternative if you are just trying to get some mixed carbonated water and salt (to proper SG) and a turkey baster and squirting the holes of each of your rocks (this would be tedious if you have a lot of rock), but may save some of your coraline. I had my LR in my tank (cycling the tank) but found I had a mantis shrimp, after doing a lot of research I squirted the holes in my rocks to evacuate the shrimp. In my case I had no coraline die off. Maybe worh a try as alternative to a full dip.
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:07 PM   #9
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I have shipped 1,000s of lbs. rock all over the US. for the last 3 years and even in the winter we had no problems with die off. When people started to dip our rock we started to get complaints about die off,and spikes. Think about it, if it irritates a mantis or crab, what must it do to all the very miniscue micro-organisms? And there are a lot of creatures that will still not come out of there holes and just die inside. I know that there dead shells or bodies cause ammonia spike. We have had great success with out the dips. I know some tank owners with expensive corals or clams cannot take this risk. If your carbonated S/W dip works I'm all for it. But I must see to believe, or at least hear from our customers that it causes no spike. And that there rock is still as alive as the day they recieved it. I cannot and will not recomend it to my customers or fellow reefers. Our marine biologists with whom we work quite closely, tell us that most SW out of the normal NSW range causes great harm to all the hundreds of lifeforms on fresh liverock. Maybe not on imported rock because most of the life forms are already dead by the time it reaches the US. Import rock is not shipped to the US. over night, Maybe over a week it might be delivered to a retail store. Then it must be cured to rid it of all the dead organisms.(death) so as not to spike our tanks. A dip on a mostly dead rock will not hurt much, because there is not much left to die.
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:22 PM   #10
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Well, I think that my experience is a good example. When I received the rock it was 14 degrees out. Not a nice week to receive rock. Anyways, the rock was cool to the touch when I received it. I proceeded to dunk the rock in seltzer water at 80 degrees with a SG of 1.025.

For anyone doing this, follow these directions for creating the carbonated dip.

1.) mix the salt with very hot water first giving you a supersaturated solution. This eliminates the nucleation points on the salt, which would normally cause the water to go flat.

2.) float the seltzer water bottles in 85 degree water. By the time the bottles warm up, the equilibrium point should approach about 78 degrees.

3.) mix the seltzer water with the salt solution. Make more solution as needed to raise the SG. Just do not add dry salt to the seltzer water.


Anyways, I did the dip and removed a bunch of hitchhikers. No mantis though. I know there are a few alive in my tank right now. I believe that they tend to dig quite deep into the rock. This dip, by no means, killed off the life on my rock. I've had a lettuce nudibranch show up, a cowrie, plenty of oysters, bristleworms, featherdusters, macro algae, several brittle stars, many crabs, ISOPODS (grrrrr...), many snails and about 5 pistol shrimp.

I still see new things all the time. So there is no way that the dip killed anything. BTW i dipped the rock for about 5 minutes per piece.

Jim
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