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Old 07-23-2014, 06:27 PM   #1
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Through proven treatment for you...which is better-copper or hypo salinity treatment

I posted last weekend re my banner fish and for over 90mins we couldn't catch him without us pulling the reef apart -he slid under the rocks like hitting home base and stayed there at the back of the tank. He was so stressed and breathing fast so we left him alone as visitors turned up. Well now it's definite...he DOES have ich and so does my large sailfin who was harassing him. I told my hubby he HAS to get them out today while I am at work and put them in my empty 90 litre AquaOne 620- he is still trying to tell me it will go away-we are arguing lol.
My concerns are a number incl the stock filtration with it. I used the tank for my cichlids when I moved as the 250litre tank needed resealing. They dropped off like flies so I added my Eheim filter as well. I don't have that anymore. Will the filtration support these two fish ?
If I use copper in that tank, can I ever convert it to a nano reef and can the copper kill them? I have a RODI unit so hyposalinity would be less costly with water changes and I have a refractometer but I tried that with a blue tang a while ago with no luck.
I have a large new filter 2800litres per hour with UV...will this help with the blooms so less stress on them or will it become contaminated from the ich?
I was thinking of setting up my 250litre tank with new LR and the new filter and by the time it cycles, I can transfer the two fish in that tank if they have been cured of the ich,.....them re home them as the tank is too small long term and I can't put them back in my 400l. If my other fish show signs of the ich, then I can put them in the 620 tank and start the treatment again. I can't put all of my stock in at once...I will need to treat them as they show signs then put them in the new, un contaminated tank. Sorry I know it's a lot...I am rambling a bit but I have too many fish to house in the 620 so I have to treat it as it shows.


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Old 07-23-2014, 06:35 PM   #2
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And if I use copper, can I add more fish to the same treatment while treating the sailfin or banner if they show signs or do I have to wait? Studying the tank I have a 3rd fish showing some spots too so will have to include that one and get them out in a hurry.


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Old 07-24-2014, 02:47 AM   #3
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I left work early and just rang 2 LFS and was given the following advice when I asked for the name of the copper to buy. I got told to raise the temp to 29degs and lower the salt and that should get rid of it in 2-3days. The other said to add 10sulphur tablets to the 400 litre tank and it will get rid of it in a few days and won't harm the reef-they sell the tablets and are speaking from experience (as was the 1st LFS) . No wonder a person wants to throw their arms up in the air and give up at times!


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Old 07-25-2014, 12:40 AM   #4
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Do you have fish only or with corals in your tank and how old?
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Old 07-25-2014, 03:50 PM   #5
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If I understand it correctly, your icky fish are in a tank that is NOT destined to become your main display tank (DT). If so, here is what I'd do.

1. move anything you want in the DT from your current tank, including any rocks, heaters, etc. Everything but the fish. Although this will contaminate the 250, leaving it empty of fish for 8-9 weeks while you cycle it will kill any ick that were transferred. But if your tank cycles faster you still need to leave it fallow (no fish, but snails and other CUC are OK) for 8-9 weeks to ensure ALL ick cysts die.
2. In the tank with the fish (90?), use hypo salinity treatment. Slowly lower the salinity 0.003ppm per day until you get to 1.009. Keep it there for 3 weeks after the last signs of ick have disappeared (or the 8 weeks the other tank needs). Raise it back to normal salinity at the same rate per day. Copper treatment will kill all your BB in the hospital tank, and hypo treatment will do something similar (some may survive). The big difference is copper will contaminate the tank and everything in it (including rocks and sand) while hypo salinity does not. Temperature has no affect on marine ick.
3. Once the HT salinity is back to 1.026 you can carefully transfer the fish over to the DT. Empty and clean the 90 for future use.

Some fish can easily survive ick in a tank, which if left alone will always remain. Tangs however, due partly to their thinner slime coat, and partly because they want a large space to roam and are stressed by the small tanks we house them in, are very susceptible to ick.

Good luck
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffaquarius View Post
Do you have fish only or with corals in your tank and how old?

Hi Jeff I have a full reef tank in the DT.....just upsized about 3-4 was ago from a 300l. And that was an upsizing in Jan from a 150l tank I'd had since May last year.


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Old 07-25-2014, 06:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingy View Post
If I understand it correctly, your icky fish are in a tank that is NOT destined to become your main display tank (DT). If so, here is what I'd do.

1. move anything you want in the DT from your current tank, including any rocks, heaters, etc. Everything but the fish. Although this will contaminate the 250, leaving it empty of fish for 8-9 weeks while you cycle it will kill any ick that were transferred. But if your tank cycles faster you still need to leave it fallow (no fish, but snails and other CUC are OK) for 8-9 weeks to ensure ALL ick cysts die.
2. In the tank with the fish (90?), use hypo salinity treatment. Slowly lower the salinity 0.003ppm per day until you get to 1.009. Keep it there for 3 weeks after the last signs of ick have disappeared (or the 8 weeks the other tank needs). Raise it back to normal salinity at the same rate per day. Copper treatment will kill all your BB in the hospital tank, and hypo treatment will do something similar (some may survive). The big difference is copper will contaminate the tank and everything in it (including rocks and sand) while hypo salinity does not. Temperature has no affect on marine ick.
3. Once the HT salinity is back to 1.026 you can carefully transfer the fish over to the DT. Empty and clean the 90 for future use.

Some fish can easily survive ick in a tank, which if left alone will always remain. Tangs however, due partly to their thinner slime coat, and partly because they want a large space to roam and are stressed by the small tanks we house them in, are very susceptible to ick.

Good luck

Thanks Ingy. I think when I first got ich late last year (2tanks ago) it may have remained on the rocks (even after my anemone nuked the tank) but only the blue tang was originally affected. I finally found a LFS who has copper and bought that and a test kit but am going to try the hyposalinity again first on the sailfin and banner. I had to pull down the whole reef to catch them. I don't really want to do it again for the rest of the fish unless they show signs- I am studying the 3rd fish. You gave me an idea though. If the ich spreads to use the 250 litre as the HT and leave the DT fallow....they won't all survive in the 90l tank for that long. I really don't want to lose my mandarins.


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Old 07-26-2014, 12:41 AM   #8
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Do you use any supplement to boost immune system of your fish? I would isolate the fish that is harassing the other fish. IME the blue tang do harass the sail fin tang. As long as you have good water circulation and do regular water change in QT (2x a week) the filtration is not critical. If QT can not accommodate them all, just pick the most sensitive and worse affected for treatment. I would recomment copper treatment for tangs. In your DT use Garlic Xtreme and observe the result. I was successful with it without moving them to QT. I doubled the amount or 2x a day when no improvement until ich subsided. I continued it for more than 2 months. It was about a year ago and they are still with me until now.
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Old 07-26-2014, 01:12 AM   #9
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Hey Jeff my posts are probably confusing so apologies. The blue tang I had with ich was way back in Nov last year. I re homed him advertising him for free to an aquarist who knew how to treat him as he was suffering with my attempt at hyposalinity. He was was a good size too....$100 but the RODI was costing me more ...now I have my own unit so it won't be so financially depleting. The sailfin hassled the banner and the banner broke out. I thought they were getting along with the banner now rubbing against the sailfin but maybe he was getting his payback lol they are both isolated now in the same tank and are doing well. I soak their frozen food and seaweed in RODI with fresh garlic cloves sliced up. We did that last time and no other fish showed signs. Will keep it up and see how I go with the hyposalinity. The hubby looks at the dollar figures of treating a fish but I look more at the science....I want to know that when this breaks out I can fix it : )


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Old 08-01-2014, 05:20 AM   #10
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My mandarin is showing ich. He is still in the DT and others are showing it too. I have only brought my SG down to 1.015 so far in the QT. The banner and a dotty back died in the QT but the sailfin is still alive, and showing ich. Can I add the rest of the fish to the QT tank with the SG at 1.015 straight from the DT or will that be too much stress? I read something briefly this morning before work about osmosis shock? I also read ages ago that due to the mucous on mandarins they are not prone to ich but can't find the article. Is it safe to apply hyposalinity to my mandarins? Are they scaleless fish as again, I can't find something which started talking about not doing hypo on scaleless fish? I am thinking I am going to have to treat all the fish as gradually more and more are showing signs. Its a bigger project which I will have to do tomorrow.


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