Brenden
Aquarium Advice Addict
Actually cheaper in the long run. You can get a RO/DI unit for less than $100 on ebay. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=65850
Think of the money you will save in additives.
Using freshwater water to cycle reef tank?
- Thread starter Nøjo
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Think of the money you will save in additives.
binaryterror
Aquarium Advice Freak
What just came to mind is that our water from our faucet is from a well. Not like an open well, but something like a city well but alot smaller and its like only ours. Is that better than tap water or is that tap water? lol
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
binaryterror said:
sorry to jump in this late but this needs clarification IMO.. if the plastic is going to leach adding heat will only make it worse..
my oppion about RO/DI.. If I were think about using my tap water first I would get a TDS meter (e-bay $20), a PO4 testkit and test my tapwater.. I am positive that my tapwater would test horribly wrong for mixing up SW from the KH reading alone.. but if you can get a reading of less then 10 ms and test for PO4 with a reading of zero.. and test every time before putting water into the tank and get these readings then I would consider it.. other then that.. A RO/DI unit would be on my shopping list..
PO4=algae
TDS= more and wrong minerals and buffers then you need/want.. there in the artifical SW mix..
btw.. I read the average tap water TDS measurement it 200-300 ms... low TDS tapwater is a extream rarity but is not imposible..
there is always a chance that there could be trace amounts of copper in your tapwater... even a low TDS reading could expose your inverts. to levels of copper that would not be condusive to life.. its just not a good idea to use tapwater in the first place.. the composition of the water can change and you wouldnt know it.. and testing the water for all the harmfull ellements constantly would be more expensive then a RO/DI unit..
as said before, its your tank, good luck..
tmkx3
Aquarium Advice Freak
I filled my 125g tank with the water hose. I let it run for a while out side to clean it out a little. I also never let the nozzle or any part of the hose touch the new (I was afraid it might have a chemical of some kind on it) water. When the water level got high enough in the tank I held it above the tank until it was full. My tank has cycled and I now have 4 fish that have been in there a week. So far no problems 
BillyZ
Aquarium Advice Addict
th eissue with most garden hoses is the common additive of antibacterial/anti-fungal chemicals added to the hoses to keep them from having things grow in them. You ever drink from a garden hose? Notice how it has a unique taste? thats the antifungals working. I would not reccomend using garden hose for any aquarium other than syphoning out of the tank to the drain
I'll also add to the "do yourself a favor and get an RO/DI unit" list. To expand alittle on brendan's "start clean stay clean" your LR and LS will do the same thing as you other chemical media you might use to remove the impurities from adding tap water. This will eventually build up over time. Also, if you are on a municiple water supply, whats actually in it can fluctuate depending on where your supplier gets their water from, the weather etc. In my city we receive and anual report of water quality tests, etc and the numbers are never the same. If i'm plunking down hundreds of dollars every year in food, salt, test kits, lights bulbs, etc.. if I can plop down $100 once and remove one more variable from the system that helps keep the tank healthy, i'm all over it!
as for "getting enough to fill the tank", binaryterror, i and a number of others have gone to walmart/homedepot/whatever and purchased a cheap rubbermaid storage bin and use that exclusivly for storing RO water for changes/top offs. just keep it covered and out of direct light and you can keep it for quite a while.
I'll also add to the "do yourself a favor and get an RO/DI unit" list. To expand alittle on brendan's "start clean stay clean" your LR and LS will do the same thing as you other chemical media you might use to remove the impurities from adding tap water. This will eventually build up over time. Also, if you are on a municiple water supply, whats actually in it can fluctuate depending on where your supplier gets their water from, the weather etc. In my city we receive and anual report of water quality tests, etc and the numbers are never the same. If i'm plunking down hundreds of dollars every year in food, salt, test kits, lights bulbs, etc.. if I can plop down $100 once and remove one more variable from the system that helps keep the tank healthy, i'm all over it!
as for "getting enough to fill the tank", binaryterror, i and a number of others have gone to walmart/homedepot/whatever and purchased a cheap rubbermaid storage bin and use that exclusivly for storing RO water for changes/top offs. just keep it covered and out of direct light and you can keep it for quite a while.
Salttanker
Aquarium Advice Addict
The part that gets expensive is when you spend a bunch of money on corals and fish, then down the road they die as the result of impure water. Some people on here have thousands invested in corals and fish, so $100 to keep them healthy is not asking for much.
I have been there. I personally used tap water a while back before getting an RO/DI unit. The problem with my tap is it poor in quality. As a result, I could never get rid of the diatoms, even after months of being setup. Once I switched to RO/DI, the diatoms eventually went away. I would have your water tested in any event.
Mike
binaryterror
Aquarium Advice Freak
My mom told me that our tap water is softened. Does that make a difference or no?
I initially setup my tank using tap water. Ran it that way for 3 or 4 months with no difficulties. "They" (now we, lol) couldn't convince me either, lol. We ended up getting an RO/DI unit shortly after that and haven't put a drop of tap into the system ever since. My tap water checks out at a TDS of around 300, if I'm not mistaken. That's an awful lot of gunk in my water that the fish shouldn't be consuming.
Is it an absolute necessity? No. Are you likely to introduce problems that you don't need to deal with? Yes. Ya wanna take that chance? Hmm. Only you know the answer.
My LFS sells RO/DI water at .50c a g. and the filter direct unit that I purchased was only 100$ on ebay. Not a bad deal, really.
A garden hose is a really really bad idea. As stated they frequently contain pesticides, antifungals or other chemicals. Not something you want to start a SW tank with. We purchased tubing at Home Depot, I think. Get a ton of it. It makes moving water around the house a breeze!
Is it an absolute necessity? No. Are you likely to introduce problems that you don't need to deal with? Yes. Ya wanna take that chance? Hmm. Only you know the answer.
My LFS sells RO/DI water at .50c a g. and the filter direct unit that I purchased was only 100$ on ebay. Not a bad deal, really.
A garden hose is a really really bad idea. As stated they frequently contain pesticides, antifungals or other chemicals. Not something you want to start a SW tank with. We purchased tubing at Home Depot, I think. Get a ton of it. It makes moving water around the house a breeze!
Salttanker
Aquarium Advice Addict
I guess I look at it as a hobby that costs several thousands over time, so $100 for an RO/DI system is minute and a better way to control what goes in the water. Some will insist on using tap water, which may work for some, but in reality it can create more problems down the road for others.
I learned a long time ago that you can't skimp on quality in this hobby if you want to do it successfully. I didn't spend $3,500 on my setup just to skimp on a $100 RO/DI system. it makes no sense.
This board was created to help educate those that are interested in setting up and maintaining a SW aquarium. However, we can give them opinions and state facts all day long, but they will ultimately decide on what they think is best. :|
Mike
Mike
I learned a long time ago that you can't skimp on quality in this hobby if you want to do it successfully. I didn't spend $3,500 on my setup just to skimp on a $100 RO/DI system. it makes no sense.
This board was created to help educate those that are interested in setting up and maintaining a SW aquarium. However, we can give them opinions and state facts all day long, but they will ultimately decide on what they think is best. :|
Mike
Mike
Nøjo
Aquarium Advice Activist
Good point, the advice has hit home and is well taken. I hope that you guys realize how much it's appreciated that you all take so much time to explain things, probably not for the first time, to those of us starting out. I am extremely grateful.
I'll be on the lookout for a unit online, hopefully I can understand more about them shortly. I have plans on having a reef tank with lots of corals, anenomes, and inverts...so I'm aware that my water quality has to be pristine. If you guys come across a model that you'd recommend, please feel free to let me know.
And what on earth are diatoms?
I'll be on the lookout for a unit online, hopefully I can understand more about them shortly. I have plans on having a reef tank with lots of corals, anenomes, and inverts...so I'm aware that my water quality has to be pristine. If you guys come across a model that you'd recommend, please feel free to let me know.
And what on earth are diatoms?
Salttanker
Aquarium Advice Addict
Brown algae that can get out of control quickly due to excess nutrients. I never could get rid of mine when I used tap water a while back. Once I changed over to RO/DI, the problem slowly went away with water changes. We just want you to avoid using tap water if you are setting up a reef tank. Fish are more forgiving than corals, Anemones, and inverts.
Mike
HoopsGuru
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I figured I would add a little bit of info here and there as well...pretty good info all the way around for everyone to chew on.
When using a water conditioner such as "Prime", for the most part they only detoxify chlorine and heavy metals, they do not eliminate them from the water column. "Detoxify" is also a broad term typically directed towards the health of fish and has no bearing on what the potential buildup of such metals may have in a reef aquarium (especially without noting what the metals might be).
My take on the rest is this:
Municipal - A water report should be available from your local water supply that will detail what exactly is in your water. This would provide better info than a TDS meter alone (although a beneficial gadget) because they do not tell you what is making up those dissolved solids. Some area have good tapwater, others do not as mentioned.
Well - Same deal, but more expensive. I would take a sample and have it tested because the surrounding minerals etc. will have a large impact on what the water is like. My parents have a well that is sort of a holy spring for reef tanks and I use it solely on their 30g for the last 4-5 years and have used it on my own tanks.
HOWEVER, anyone that uses tap and does not follow the above items from everyone runs the risk of introducing some really nasty permanent elements like copper into their tanks, and it can/will ruin a large investment in a hurry.
Lots of folks with experience here seem to be presenting a pattern of information....
When using a water conditioner such as "Prime", for the most part they only detoxify chlorine and heavy metals, they do not eliminate them from the water column. "Detoxify" is also a broad term typically directed towards the health of fish and has no bearing on what the potential buildup of such metals may have in a reef aquarium (especially without noting what the metals might be).
My take on the rest is this:
Municipal - A water report should be available from your local water supply that will detail what exactly is in your water. This would provide better info than a TDS meter alone (although a beneficial gadget) because they do not tell you what is making up those dissolved solids. Some area have good tapwater, others do not as mentioned.
Well - Same deal, but more expensive. I would take a sample and have it tested because the surrounding minerals etc. will have a large impact on what the water is like. My parents have a well that is sort of a holy spring for reef tanks and I use it solely on their 30g for the last 4-5 years and have used it on my own tanks.
HOWEVER, anyone that uses tap and does not follow the above items from everyone runs the risk of introducing some really nasty permanent elements like copper into their tanks, and it can/will ruin a large investment in a hurry.
Lots of folks with experience here seem to be presenting a pattern of information....
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
Nøjo said:
good deals..
long ebay link
that one includes a DI unit but no holding tank(not nessisary)
Filter Direct ebay store
great designs IMO but not as cheap..
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=61359&start=10
check my last post on that thread..
Nøjo
Aquarium Advice Activist
HoopsGuru said:
I noticed that. You can seperate people you can and should listen to on this forum from those that will point you aimlessly about, and that's the main reason my thinking is being converted.
Nøjo
Aquarium Advice Activist
So instead of investigating further into RO/DI systems I had an epiphany of sorts and walked half a block down the street to visit my local water wholesaler. Turns out that not only is he able to supply all my purified water needs but is also a long time reef enthusiast who has used the water for years. He told me that there is a sizeable local reef community and he's been handling their water needs. Talk about lucking out.
Getting 60 gallons of RO/DI water will cost me a grand total of $25 - on the condition that I stop in regularly to let him know how my tank is doing. And seeing as it's all going to be delivered by one of his staff, it'll actually be an awful lot less of a hassle than if I was to use the tap in the other room.
What a relief! I can go ahead as planned now and start my tank this weekend!
Getting 60 gallons of RO/DI water will cost me a grand total of $25 - on the condition that I stop in regularly to let him know how my tank is doing. And seeing as it's all going to be delivered by one of his staff, it'll actually be an awful lot less of a hassle than if I was to use the tap in the other room.
What a relief! I can go ahead as planned now and start my tank this weekend!
cowman345
Aquarium Advice Regular
To answer your question directly: No.
You would have little to no benefit of using mature freshwater to get a jump start on cycling because there are tons and tons of different bacterial species that contribute to the nitrogen cycle. Some live in freshwater, some in soil, some in saltwater, and in all variations and conditions within and between these categories. Chances are the particular species that thrive in FW would not survive in saltwater, and vice versa. I'm sure there are at least a few of some useful species in your FW, but probably not enough to contribute to a swift cycle, and I'd be more worried about the other chemical conditions.
Now, RO/DI is the best way to go, or even distilled water (I use distilled for my 2.5gal nano reef, it's easy), but if these aren't an option, tapwater might be ok. I used tapwater in my 55gal reef a few years ago with NO problems. But I can't speak for your tapwater, it varies widely based on where you live.
Hope that helps.
-dave-
You would have little to no benefit of using mature freshwater to get a jump start on cycling because there are tons and tons of different bacterial species that contribute to the nitrogen cycle. Some live in freshwater, some in soil, some in saltwater, and in all variations and conditions within and between these categories. Chances are the particular species that thrive in FW would not survive in saltwater, and vice versa. I'm sure there are at least a few of some useful species in your FW, but probably not enough to contribute to a swift cycle, and I'd be more worried about the other chemical conditions.
Now, RO/DI is the best way to go, or even distilled water (I use distilled for my 2.5gal nano reef, it's easy), but if these aren't an option, tapwater might be ok. I used tapwater in my 55gal reef a few years ago with NO problems. But I can't speak for your tapwater, it varies widely based on where you live.
Hope that helps.
-dave-
HoopsGuru
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Nøjo said:
What about frequent water changes down the road? It will not take long before you have spent the same amount that you would have spent 1 time on the RO/DI unit for yourself. Other than small nanos, I can't see much saved from purchasing water elsewhere.
