Water changes and water containers

[Acronuts]

Hey guys I have what may seem to be a few questions and unproven theory about water changes and the containers.
You buy mixed water from an extremely reputable LFS. You have your own gallon jugs with lids. You can't do the WC for several ( 4 to 5 )days.
With containers being closed with no air coming in or out, how fast will the water deteriorate?
How low will oxygen levels be since there is no circulation?
Will Alk drop?
Will Ph drop?
Should this mixed salt water be used?
Is there a way to save it?
Juan

 

[MarkA123]

I use 5g buckets with lids for my freshwater and I've wondered the same thing s out not enough circulation and oxygen. I premake it with all my additive and it sits there for about 5 days. I've started leaving the lid halfway on.

 

[Ziggy953]

The PH will certainly be off with no O2 exchange, alk and other levels shouldn't be too far off. I would open the bucket that you plan to use and drop a small pump in it for several hours to one day to let it remix.

 

[pat8you]

This might be something to test out. I suspect that it won't change the levels. Even though there is no O2 exchange because of the lid being on there is nothing in the container using up O2 in the water. Just like carbonation stays in your soda when it isn't opened the oxygen should stay in the water as long as there is nothing consuming it. Granted the container wouldn't be under the same pressure as a can of soda but they concept should be approximately the same.

 

[Acronuts]

I usually make my own but the reason for my asking is so that I can narrow down the possibility of my recent sps loses.I thought that maybe this might be a reason.
During the summer months I was gone a lot. My roommate feed tank and provided top off water from my RO. Have yet to install Auto Drip system.
When I did a water change , the salt water was store bought in July/August. I ran no tests. Late Aug. did a test and found my alk went from 8dk to 13dk. My Ca went from a steady 460 to 410. I was using Neo Marine and LFS uses IO. Sept WC will be IO.
Just trying to figure out culprit.

 

[Jimbo7]

The PH will certainly be off with no O2 exchange, alk and other levels shouldn't be too far off. I would open the bucket that you plan to use and drop a small pump in it for several hours to one day to let it remix.

Completely agree, chances are the pH was way off when you did your water change and the constant swinging around irritated your sps. Pointing a power head straight up with enough surface agitation will make sure your pH stabilizes before you top off. Do a quick test to confirm.

Sometimes when people leave water in large brute containers too long, a weird slime forms in there, do you clean out the container fairly regularly?

 

[David S]

how about putting an airstone in your container if you cant put a pump in.

 

[Acronuts]

I typically put all fresh mixed saltwater in a big garbage and run a mag 7.
I just need to stop being lazy and mix my own and test to bring alk, ph, salinity to display tank levels.

how about putting an airstone in your container if you cant put a pump in.

Completely agree, chances are the pH was way off when you did your water change and the constant swinging around irritated your sps. Pointing a power head straight up with enough surface agitation will make sure your pH stabilizes before you top off. Do a quick test to confirm.

Sometimes when people leave water in large brute containers too long, a weird slime forms in there, do you clean out the container fairly regularly?

 

[mr_X]

when i leave mixed water in my drum for extended periods, i get a calcium build up on the walls of the drum. the calcium levels are dropping and the alk raising.
i run a power head in it also, but i suggest not holding on to mixed water for longer than a couple days if you have corals.

 

[Acronuts]

I just did a water change. I tested the new salt water:

Mine New
Salinity 1.024 1.025
Alk 10.5 11.5
Ph 8.23 8.12

These all seem to be within acceptable levels. I did just realize that I did not test the fresh mixed water CA. Mine was at 440.

when i leave mixed water in my drum for extended periods, i get a calcium build up on the walls of the drum. the calcium levels are dropping and the alk raising.
i run a power head in it also, but i suggest not holding on to mixed water for longer than a couple days if you have corals.

 

[Jaybird]

I mix mine in a large 33G garbage can. Once it`s filled up with RO/DI water I put in a heater and a pump and start adding salt. Each time I add salt I wait a couple of hours for it to mix and stabilize before checking SG and possibly adding a little more salt.

 

[Acronuts]

Yes it looks like we all employ the same when it comes to mixing salt water.
I was wondering if my LFS mixed salt water was different enough to make my sps's and lps's suffer or as some did die.

I am thinking the next potential thing that did go hayware was my CA reactor. I remember right before I left on my trip it stopped dripping. As always I opened up the lines and let it run for a half hour then slowly turned it down to about 65 drops per minute. Unfortunatley I never checked the CO2 drops per minute.
I STILL haven't tested the effluent. This is next. Of course late but at least I will know what it is at the moment.
Thanks for your help guys.

 

[Jaybird]

If there were problems it would be how long the water mix was left to sit at the LFS. If it wasn't constantly agitated and topped up you could end up with some nasty stuff in it.

 

[Ziggy953]

If there were problems it would be how long the water mix was left to sit at the LFS. If it wasn't constantly agitated and topped up you could end up with some nasty stuff in it.

I'm not sure I'm tracking with you here. I work at an LFS (SW only) and we sell salt water and ro/di water. Each container holds 300 gallons. We have to have our RO/DI unit running all day long to keep the FW full. We also have to make SW morning and night to keep up with the SW demand. Water doesn't "sit" around at most LFSs that sell it.

Also not sure about what nasty stuff you are talking about.?

 

[Ziggy953]

Yes it looks like we all employ the same when it comes to mixing salt water.
I was wondering if my LFS mixed salt water was different enough to make my sps's and lps's suffer or as some did die.

I am thinking the next potential thing that did go hayware was my CA reactor. I remember right before I left on my trip it stopped dripping. As always I opened up the lines and let it run for a half hour then slowly turned it down to about 65 drops per minute. Unfortunatley I never checked the CO2 drops per minute.
I STILL haven't tested the effluent. This is next. Of course late but at least I will know what it is at the moment.
Thanks for your help guys.

If you aren't testing the effluent you need to either get that done or stop the CA reactor. You know the PH of the effluent is going to be around 6-6.5 and if you just pushing it into your system with no checks you could be dropping your PH. Just a FYI, I'm sure you knew that but just thought I would mention testing is important when you are potentially changing your PH.

 

[Jaybird]

I'm not sure I'm tracking with you here. I work at an LFS (SW only) and we sell salt water and ro/di water. Each container holds 300 gallons. We have to have our RO/DI unit running all day long to keep the FW full. We also have to make SW morning and night to keep up with the SW demand. Water doesn't "sit" around at most LFSs that sell it.

Also not sure about what nasty stuff you are talking about.?

It's great that your store uses ro/di water and has a high turn around of it. That's something that you should advertise. I've never seen a chain store sell SW in anything other than what looked like pre-sealed milk jugs (4l types or 1G types). None of the SW only places around where I live sell pre-mixed SW.

As for nasty stuff: water kept for a prolonged period without proper agitation could end up with unwanted algae, ph can get thrown off, salinity can change. It would all depend on how the place was making that water, how they stored it, how long they keep it, what the water is kept in, how frequently they change ro/di filters, if they even use ro/di water, or if they always use the same salt mix.

 

[Ziggy953]

It's great that your store uses ro/di water and has a high turn around of it. That's something that you should advertise. I've never seen a chain store sell SW in anything other than what looked like pre-sealed milk jugs (4l types or 1G types). None of the SW only places around where I live sell pre-mixed SW.

As for nasty stuff: water kept for a prolonged period without proper agitation could end up with unwanted algae, ph can get thrown off, salinity can change. It would all depend on how the place was making that water, how they stored it, how long they keep it, what the water is kept in, how frequently they change ro/di filters, if they even use ro/di water, or if they always use the same salt mix.

I don't work for a chain store. I would never buy those jugs you see at petco or petsmart that say "ocean water" who the heck knows what's in there...

Algae, if you get algae growing in newly mixed salt water even if it has been sitting for a week then something is wrong with your salt mix, or the water you are using. Salinity isn't going to change if the container is sealed. The idea behind using RO/DI water is that it is 100% pure (or dang near it) RO membranes are good for 1-3 years. Most places that make and sell RO/DI water use Spectrapure industry grade filters which last even longer. My store uses a unit that makes 450 gallons per day. I can't speak for other stores only the one I'm affiliated with, we use IO salt mix and only IO salt mix for the water we make and sell. Not my personal preference but it is always what is used and it is always mixed to the same level and checked with a refractometer.

I don't know about anyone else but if I take the time to mix up new SW it's going to be used within a few days time.

 

[Acronuts]

I use ph probes in both the effluent and the sump. The ph in the effluent is connected with a controller. It is set to come on if the ph rises to 7.0 and shuts off at 6.5.
The probe in the sump reads during the daylight hrs 8.23 to 8.24.
In the morning hours it reads 7.78 to 7.89. I will though watch that ph when I first get up in the morning to see how low it gets.
You may have something here.

If you aren't testing the effluent you need to either get that done or stop the CA reactor. You know the PH of the effluent is going to be around 6-6.5 and if you just pushing it into your system with no checks you could be dropping your PH. Just a FYI, I'm sure you knew that but just thought I would mention testing is important when you are potentially changing your PH.

 

[SAAVE853]

I had one of the ladies that works at an LFS tell me that if you allow RO/DI water to sit and "mature" with proper agitation that the PH should rise.

I have a 30gal trash can that my RO/DI water sits in it has constant agitation and an air stone running. The water will sometimes sit in there for a week or so till I need it to make SW but i find that the PH in there is still very very low.

Is there any truth to the first statement??

 

[Acronuts]

Interesting point Saave853.
I know I have not done a ph test on my RO water because it takes a 35 gallon garbage bin a few hours to fill. At the point it has enough water I start adding salt.

Does anyone test the ph in their RO water?

I had one of the ladies that works at an LFS tell me that if you allow RO/DI water to sit and "mature" with proper agitation that the PH should rise.

I have a 30gal trash can that my RO/DI water sits in it has constant agitation and an air stone running. The water will sometimes sit in there for a week or so till I need it to make SW but i find that the PH in there is still very very low.

Is there any truth to the first statement??