water parameters help

[reyma10]

Hey guys I'm having a lil trouble with my parameters my Ph is 8.0 ammonia is. 25 nitrites 0 nitrates 80 I've lost 3 fish due to ick. Can high nitrates contribute to ick. Also the levels where high due to really poor maintenance. I'm doing right now 50% pwc weakly to get nitrates down will this help to reduce ammonia also? I'm running a 30 gallon high Fowler with plans on going reef. Also dont know if it would help to know but running it with a aqueon hob filter with only polyfilter and two bags of chemipure

 

[Bectan01]

High nitrates can cause fish to stress and then get sick yes. What kind of fish? How many are left? Keep up the PWC until you have 0 amm. Can you give a bit more detail about the tank? What's in it, how old it is? How did you treat the ich?

 

[reyma10]

Ok the tank was a 55 it had 3 clown 1 chromis 1 YT 1powder brown tang which was the last one I put in and spreed ick and a French angel


The ones that died was YT powder brown and French now I switched everything to a 30 high 30 # live rock 20# live sand a small Skimmer cuz my big one broke impeller
I know the pwc will remove nitrates but will it lower ammonia also and the tank was running for a bout 1 and a half year

 

[reyma10]

Forgot to write how was treating ick I was using ick attack by kordon

 

[reyma10]

Some pics from when the French was alive

 

[Bectan01]

So you had a 55g changed it to a 30 then the fish got ich? If that's the case then you may have started a mini cycle with the transfer or, either way both those tangs and the angel require larger tanks if they got stressed from the move or just being in small quarters they are prone to ich. Had you had the fish from the beginning? What type of filtration do you use? You may also want to invest in more rock (more rock = better filtration)

 

[reyma10]

This happend all in the 55 since all the large fish died and have small fish only I switched to a 30. I use for.filtration. a aqueon 55/75 hob filter rated for 400 gal an hour I use in it filter floss and two bags of.chemipure. and 30 # isn't enough for the tank. Even thou I.have 20.#. Of live sand?

 

[Bectan01]

Ok cool, that amount of rock is fine in the 30. If the transfer was recent I would still say amm from the move. Keep up the water changes (will reduce amm) how much/often you feeding? I am not a big fan of hob or canister filters as they can house nitrates if not cleaned often. Let us know how you are going in a week or so...

 

[reyma10]

I feed every other day and only a lil bit almost to no food hits the bottom and if it does I have one hell of a clean up crew 9 hermit crabs and 2 Esmerald crabs also I clean my hob filter weekly

 

[Holygral]

Alot of people reading this is thinking the same thing but probably wont speak up. First off you stocked a 55 with fish that can not live in a 55 without stress. Your ammonia is at .25 due to large fish in a small environment, you say it was due to poor mainteance, a proper sized tank with the proper fish can go a long time without mainteance and not have an ammonia reading of .25. Ditch the hang on the back filter, if you are going to use one then it needs cleaned out every 2 or 3 days not once a week. You are treating ick with with ick attach, total waste of money and time. There are only 2 treatments for ick, hypo or copper and thats it the rest are snake oils. Going from a 55 to a 30 is only going to make your situation worst, more crowded tank and less water volume/dilution. And by crowded tank I mean less swim room/distance. I would go back to the 55, ditch the filter, and continue with water changes, ru using RODI? Slow dow, dont panic and just do the basic and stop adding fish until you have a stable tank with good parameters
.

 

[reyma10]

I'm using ro water saving up to order a rodi unit and I also forgot to add that my 55 started leaking that's why I switched to a 30 and since its going on repair and planning to start the 55 new and build a sump and ditch the hob filters but that's getting off topic I was just asking how to get that ammonia and nitrates down

Will doing 50% pwc everyday harm the fish or send them in shock?

 

[jeffaquarius]

A water change of 50% would stress all your tank inhabitants. You can do 20% every other day if you need to. The ammonia level could be due to a spike when moving to a new tank. Water change will make your water parameter better. Do not add more fish until you have your DT back up and running and cycled. Another thing is that you can not use an ich medication in a tank with corals and invertebrate.

 

[Holygral]

Water changes will get it down, but you need to find the source

 

[TheTodd]

Water changes will get it down, but you need to find the source

Exactly. If you can not find what is causing the problem, then it will continue. Odds are the filter is part of the problem (unless its being cleaned very frequently). Having those larger fish was definitely a problem. Big fish in tanks that are way too small almost guarantees stress (even if they are really small now) and stress opens fish up to all the nasties out there.

The larger tank with a sump will do much better for you. Moving forward, do not hesitate to ask questions if you are not 100% sure about things.

 

[Ingy]

I'm going to be a bit of a decending voice here. Very frequent PWC I agree will stress the fish, but high nitrates will as well. I am not a huge proponent for PWC to solve nitrate issues because there is no way to remove all your nitrates by doing a "partial" water change.
The fact is your fish are adding nitrates to the water and PWC won't remove all of it, unless you do a weekly 100% water change (no, not 2 x 50%). So, you have to find a way to remove those nitrates. Doing large water changes now will lower the nitrates, but they will just start to go back up. I had the same problem in my 30 gal system before I got a HOB refugium where I could put chaeto. But, there is help.

First is vodka dosing. It helps the skimmer efficiency and removes poop BEFORE it becomes nitrate. BONUS! (some have used vinegar as well)
Next is nitrate destroyer. It is a bacterial additive that consumes nitrate and then dies. The dead bacteria are consumed by corals and/or removed by the skimmer. I know there are other names for this type of bacteria, but they worked for me.

 

[Holygral]

Totally disagree, he has enough issues without vodka dosing and or add more chemical quick fix solutions, many people have crashed their tanks vodka dosing, stick with basic and you cant go wrong

 

[jeffaquarius]

Just wondering if new substrate was added when first bought with fully cycled tank. That would be where your ammonia is coming from. Your bioloads might also be overwhelming your bacteria or filtration. Remember that corals excrete waste also.

 

[Ingy]

tell me how to remove all the nitrates thru small water changes.

If his fish add 10ppm of nitrigenous waste to the tank every week (which ends up being 10ppm nitrate added weekly), how can a 20% weekly water change help. his nitrates will climb until the 20% removed = weekly added (10ppm) which would stabalize around 40ppm. Water changes will NEVER get your nitrates down to 0 which is where we all want them to be.
I agree there are better ways, but they have to include nitrate removal that is not based of a fractional efficiency (PWC). Macro Algaes are the easiest method as they will remove 100% of the nitrate. But they're not always possible. Resins are another possibility that will remove nitrates right down to 0. But they're not always possible.
The problem is we add nitrogen to the tank (in the form of food) and we need to remove it. Most of us want to remove ALL of it, and removing SOME, thru PWC will not cut it. It also does not address the issue of nitrogen in > nitrogen out.
There are other members here who still use methanol dosing (vodka or vinegar) which simply binds the protien strings into longer strings, maximizing the skimmer efficiency and lowering the amount of nitrate being produced.
Nitrate Destroyer is NOT a chemical additive, its the same anaerobic bacteria type that naturally live in our tanks in small quantity. You just add more and then let them die and get skimmed or be consumed.

BASICS - no amount of magic math will get nitrates to 0 thru PWCs as long as you feed your fish food.

 

[Gregcoyote]

PWC won't cure the problem, but it will buy time. The high organics (ammonia being the one I worry about the most at this point) have to be exported some way. Growing chaeto, even if it isn't in the sump but in a ball in the aquarium is a very good way to export nitrogen byproducts but I would consider running a ammonia/phosphate reducer in your filter for a while.

As others have already beat you up on the topic, I won't go into fish selection details for a 30 or even a 55. I made this mistake early on as I didn't think I needed to play by the rules. It cost me and some nice fish. This problem cannot be cured unless livestock rules are obeyed. French angels and most tangs are very critical of their living space and will sicken and die without it being right, no matter your water quality. It's like keeping a lion in a small room in your house. Nobody is happy.

 

[reyma10]

Thanks everybody for your input
Like I said the source of all of this was poor maintenance I wouldn't do water changes for like 4 months and didn't clean out my filters either all I did was just add ro water cuz I lost my job andcouldnt buy salt mix for the pwc I know what was the source of my dissaster from the beggining now I picked my self up and trying to get my tank back stable again

Also I didn't add anything new like sand or anything I just switched everything I had in my 55 to my 30 wat I'm trying to do is get my levels as low is possible without harming any of my fish