Would This Design Work?

[FishFrik]

I basically followed an established sump/fuge design (Thank You Melev!!!). I want to make sure that my own version of the design will work.

The sump/fuge is a regular AGA 29G 30 x 12 x 18. I'm using:

1" tubing
Danner Mag9.5 - External return pump

Here's the design

Please give me your opinions on this. This is the first sump or DIY project I've ever done and I'm not planning to turn it into a big disaster

TIA!

 

[ellisz]

Link did not work for me.

 

[Sparkie]

I get an error and then a member login page

 

[ezy33]

I get an error and then a member login page

me 3

 

[ezy33]

I had a Mag9.5 on my 180 fresh at 5' head. Even with 2 1" overflow tubes it was too much pump. I had to pinch the return to keep from over flowing my tank. Now on my 180 gal reef with 2 built in over flows the 9.5 is ok for maintenance and the 1/3 hp runs the skimmer, chiller, UV and the sump.

If you/everyone entered data into myinfo maybe we could be more help.

 

[FishFrik]

I fixed the link. Sorry for the inconvenience

I had a Mag9.5 on my 180 fresh at 5' head. Even with 2 1" overflow tubes it was too much pump. I had to pinch the return to keep from over flowing my tank. Now on my 180 gal reef with 2 built in over flows the 9.5 is ok for maintenance and the 1/3 hp runs the skimmer, chiller, UV and the sump.

If you/everyone entered data into myinfo maybe we could be more help.

Hey, thanks for the concern. Yes I was afraid of the Mag 9.5 might overflow my tank too. However, my sump/fuge design got that covered. You see the returning line is split into 3 ways - to tank, to fuge and back to returning section. The one the leads back into the return section is to conpensate any excess water from entering and flooding the main tank.

 

[afishyonados]

That is a lot of items in such a space. How much room is there for evaporation? How much room is there for when the pump is off. Consider these factors.

 

[FishFrik]

That is a lot of items in such a space.

What do you mean by a lot of items? If you're talking about equipments, Only the Skimmer will be in the sump. The UV and Phosban reactor are going to be HOT

How much room is there for evaporation? How much room is there for when the pump is off. Consider these factors.

If you havn't noticed, the light blue lines represents the water level in different compartments of the sump. Looking at the return sector alone, Im estimating 5 gallons+ space for water to drain down then the pump is off. Is that enough?

I'm also guessing that the water in the returning sector is good enough for at least 2 gallons of evaporation. When I'm done with the sump though, I'll add an auto top-off to the return sector.

 

[afishyonados]

Yes, I noticed, but thanks.

If you returns are not plumbed too low, a five gallon resivoir may be enough.

With the auto top-off, two gallons will be enough to "contend" with evaporation.

Are you running the mag submerged or external? If submerged, look into replacing the external screws with teflon. Stainless or no, they will rust. If you run the pump external, you will not have to deal with the excess heat mag drives are infamous for.

 

[Speakerman]

That sure seems like a lot of work lol...Thats a lot of pipe also thats taking up space where water could be. I also have a feeling it's going to the finiky when you try adjusting the 'blow off' so that the main tank doesn't overflow. I'd try to simplify your design a bit.

You can mount the skimmer outside of the sump if you have room, just lay some pipe for it. That would save you some space and give you more water.

It's a really cool design if but I'm worried about not having enough room for overflow from the main tank when you shut the power off.

One thing I just noticed though is that most of the water is going to be returned to the tank without any type of filtration.

Here is one I just drew up for you that in my eyes seems a bit more practicle with the exception of the blow off from the mag 9 to the skimmer return. I'd either do larger pipe on the overflow side, rig the overflow to handle more water, restricting the flow of the return pump, or try going for a smaller pump.

 

[FishFrik]

If you returns are not plumbed too low, a five gallon resivoir may be enough.

What do you mean by "your returns are not plumbed too low"?

Are you running the mag submerged or external? If submerged, look into replacing the external screws with teflon. Stainless or no, they will rust. If you run the pump external, you will not have to deal with the excess heat mag drives are infamous for.

I'm running it externally. Going to have to drill the tank XD

You can mount the skimmer outside of the sump if you have room, just lay some pipe for it. That would save you some space and give you more water.

Good point on the more water volume part by HOT the skimmer. I'm just afraid that I won't have anymore space to hang the skimmer in the stand. Plus, I've heard that skimmers are best used in-sump. Anyways, that part is easy to switch around. About the pipe being excessive...I don't think they take that much space where water could be

It's a really cool design if but I'm worried about not having enough room for overflow from the main tank when you shut the power off.

Hmm, that's easy to compensate. I'll lower the baffles a little to increase more free space if needed.

One thing I just noticed though is that most of the water is going to be returned to the tank without any type of filtration.

Mmm..., What do you mean? At the intake section, there are the skimmer, UV and phosban reactor, so most of the water that overflows into the sump will get filtered first before entering the return and fuge sections.

Here is one I just drew up for you that in my eyes seems a bit more practicle with the exception of the blow off from the mag 9 to the skimmer return. I'd either do larger pipe on the overflow side, rig the overflow to handle more water, restricting the flow of the return pump, or try going for a smaller pump.

Yeah, I wanted to go with a simpler design but after reading from this site, I decided to go with this complex design for more stabiity.
http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

I'll give you some insights about your design. It looks good but there are some flaws which I was considering when I was making mine.

Intake >>> Fuge >>> Return w/ Skimmer

The cons of this are:
1. The flow through the fuge is too much. I wanted to have control over it that's why I teed the return off to the fuge with a gate valve.
2. With the skimmer skimming after the fuge, you're skimming out most of the pods and liveplanktons that got out of the fuge.
3. The tee off of the return line to the return line of the skimmer will pressure back the skimmer's outake - overflows the skimmer.
HTH

And Thanks for opinions!

 

[Speakerman]

If your returns are placed low in the tank, when the power shuts off, the returns will turn into a syphon and water will flow out of the tank all the way down to the bottom of the return, that is if the return is lower in the tank than the lowest point of the overflow box.

I was wrong in saying that the water would return to the main tank without ANY type of filtration. What I meant was that it will get skimmed, and sterilized, however you don't have much over the water flowing through any live rock. You have the fuge, but it's fairly small, maybe 2 cf at the most, from what the pic shows, and only a small fraction of water is flowing through it. I see your purpose for setting it up this way, and it makes sense. I'm just one of those people who likes to have a very large refugium.

As for the cons.
1. understandable, I'm just used to having huge refugiums.
2. This is minimal, you skim out the crud, then all the other stuff flows back into the input side of the sump. But you have a point.
3. I didn't like that part either. lol. I just stuck it there without much thought. I think it was 3 AM when I drew that plan up. If I had been more awake, I would have just put the blow off back in the return side of the sump.

Anywho, looks like it will work. You just might have to mess with it a bit. Good luck bro, and remember k.i.s.s.

 

[FishFrik]

I still don't get what you're saying, sorry XD I'm just too slow I guess.

If your returns are placed low in the tank

By "tank", you meant sump? What "returns" are you refering to?

the returns will turn into a syphon and water will flow out of the tank all the way down to the bottom of the return

Again, what "returns"? "Tank" meant the display tank in this sentence? "return" meant the return section in the sump?

that is if the return is lower in the tank than the lowest point of the overflow box.

I'm completely lost XD

Can you put it in a different way so I can understand it? I feel like I'm taking the SAT Critical Reading test lol

About not having much water moving around the LR, I've got it covered in the main tank. 160lbs+ LR w/ 1600+GPH hehe. The main reason I'm having a fuge is to export PO4 and NO3 through macros and DSB; and pods for mandarin.

Oh yeah, do you happen to know how to setup a float valve auto top off? TIA!

 

[krap101]

i think its basically, if your return is too low, if the power goes out, water will start going through your return pipe and start a siphon, overflowing your sump

 

[Speakerman]

Water flows out of your tank through the overflow box. The water will never go below the lowest point of your overflow box. Unless the place where your water comes back into the main tank from the sump is far under water. As in the overflow box is an inch under the water, if your return heads are 2 inches under water, then all of that water will be syphoned down to the sump from your return head, not your overflow.

What we are saying is, put the return heads higher than the overflow box, that way you don't end up with a lot of water unside your stand. heh ...

I'll draw you a pic if you need further understanding.

 

[MT79]

What we are saying is, put the return heads higher than the overflow box, that way you don't end up with a lot of water unside your stand

Or just drill two 1/8" holes in the returns, one in front and one in back, 1/4" below the water surface when everything is up and running. That will prevent the return lines from siphoning water from the tank and overflowing the sump should there be a problem w/ the return pump.

 

[FishFrik]

Ah... I get what you're saying now... That part is covered by...All-Glass LOL The plumbing kit's return pipe came with 1 or 2 holes drilled on it to prevent syphoning.

Thanks for the concern though!

 

[afishyonados]

It is still a valid concern. Very few people remember to clean the boogers out of those "pee holes". They can and will clog. This is why we are suggesting not having the returns to low in the tank. The Loc-line can drop nearly six inches in the tank. If it back-siphons from that point, you will be watering your carpet!