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Old 01-13-2014, 04:18 PM   #21
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1. I've read over the entire product including the FAQs and have yet to see a single piece of scientific evidence backing up the claims for this product. The aquarium industry has shifted to need scientific evidence to accept a product. Most if not all successful products have a boat load of evidence to go along with their product. This is especially necessary when a company is making outrageous claims such as this one.

2. While there are bacterial strains out there that will perform aerobic denitrification I would need to see the exact strain they are using to accomplish this. The same goes for the bacteria that converts Ammonia into Ammonium. I would also need to see the chemical process for this part.

3. They claim that their blend of "tri carbon" won't clog as long as you use a 10 micron filter. What they don't mention is that 10 microns is equivalent to the size of 1 of the smallest known diatoms on the planet. So unless you are running a diatom filter as a pre filter for your tri carbon then it will clog and become useless (common issue regarding a lot of filter media). This is their direct statement of the needed micron size prefilter. Following that I found this: "The more surface area is available to colonize the more efficient your filtration system will be. Filters that are clogged with fines or very dirty become anoxic and will no longer function properly." under their FAQ

4. Your testing methods have been far from scientific. What test kits are you using? Are you aware that 150ml of standard ammonia would put you at about 40ppm ammonia? What is the ammonia source that you are using? Calculator. I love that you are doing them but there needs to be improvements made to convince people.

5. I am going to point out that both Jetajockey and jlk put things in a very concise manner. It might be worth going back to revisit what they said.

6. Anyone can throw together a website to market junk products. This one is a great example AquaBella Bio-Enzyme for Fresh and Saltwater Tank No water changes for a year! Heck, if I truly cared enough to I could easily throw a website together that sounded very convincing full of testimonies. It would take me a grand total of 3 - 4 hours. It's great that you are an advocate for the product but imho their claims definitely need backing.


Snake oil miracle products come and go all the time. It is our duty to look at these things in a skeptic manner to rule out any misinformation that is being fed to us by people just wanting to make a quick $. People may not like or agree with it, but it's a methodology that needs to be used.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:20 PM   #22
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Think the op claimed nitrate was anaerobic which is accurate in low oxygen
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliban07 View Post
Think the op claimed nitrate was anaerobic which is accurate in low oxygen
Nope, the site definitely says the denitrification is aerobic.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:44 PM   #24
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Nope, the site definitely says the denitrification is aerobic.

I know but it is originally anaerobes as the op pointed out
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:01 PM   #25
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Caliban/Mebbid I'm confused.
nitrification in our filters is aerobic and the bacteria that perform this are aerobic, are you guys discussing something different?
The op claims that denitrification in our filters is anaerobic
Edit: clarified, was confused.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
HDL Receives Patent for "Right Now!"
HDL has been awarded a U.S. patent - Foreign Patents pending) on its revolutionary product - Right Now! - a 24 hour totally aerobic nitrification cycle that keeps fish alive. Right Now! has been laboratory proven to reduce nitrates aerobically, and is the only product on the market to do so.
So for a point of clarification, nitrification is the process of converting ammonia into nitrites and into nitrates - this process is completely aerobic in every tank. so their claim that their product is the only product to complete this process aerobically are completely false. They then go on to state that their right now bacteria reduce nitrates, but later make this statement;

Quote:
Q: Can I use Right Now Bacteria for nitrate reduction alone?
A: For nitrate reduction you must use the proper amount of Tri Base Carbon with the Right Now Bacteria.

This statment totally contradicts their own claims - they initially claim right now bacteria reduces nitrates, then state you must use carbon. Everyone knows that carbon reduces nitrogen compound levels in the aquarium - there is nothing revolutionary or unique about that.

Conversion of nitrates into Nitrogen gas by bacteria is typically an anaerobic process.

@ the OP, In the testing method you describe, you indicate that you have plants present in the aquarium you are testing. Plants absorb/use both ammonia and nitrate, so to truly test the effectiveness of the product, you need to run your aquarium without plants, not with plants.

Their claims;
Quote:

Q: How long will it take before my cycle is started and how can I tell?
A: The bacteria will colonize your filter immediately and begin to break down nitrogen compounds, and start your tanks nitrogen cycle. Some test kits measure several forms of ammonia and may give readings that are higher than they actually are. If Nitrate is present in your system, and is not in your tap water your cycle is completed. This should be measurable in 24-48 hours.
Silly - a detectable ammount of nitrate in the water, while ignoring the amounts of other nitrogen molecules that may be present does not indicate that a tank has the full component of bacteria of all types that are needed.

And lastly they are claiming their product works in both fresh and saltwater. The bacteria that are responsible for nitrification in fresh and saltwater are different bacteria.

Everything about this site, from their improper use of the vocabulary to their verbage twisting rheteric, screams that this product is suspect.

Instead of getting defensive and claiming other people's statements have nothing to do with the product you are trying to push and that you are not going to argue, perhaps you should open your eyes/mind and learn a little bit more about the topic yourself.

Edit: it is also rather strange that your very first post on the forum is pushing this particular product - wouldn't perhaps be a hidden agenda here would there?
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:31 PM   #27
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I'm really busy today and don't have time to read these, but here are the patents by this company.

Two are granted:
United States Patent: 6562585
United States Patent: 6025152

One is in application:
United States Patent Application: 0120240832
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:38 PM   #28
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Well I tried to skim one of them but I really must go work. I am guessing the product uses heterotrophic bacteria to accomplish its goals in the short term. All of the supporting examples in the first patent are short-term examples. Problem is, heterotrophic bacteria do not colonize the filter. They just hang out in the water column. This is the problem with a lot of bacterial additives.
This is just speculation. Someone with more time can read these more thoroughly, and I will later when I have more time.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:56 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by threnjen View Post
Caliban/Mebbid I'm confused.
Denitrification in our filters is aerobic and the bacteria that perform this are aerobic, are you guys discussing something different?
The op claims that denitrification in our filters is anaerobic

Nitrification is aerobic Jen denitrification is not. Denitrification takes place where there is very little to no oxygen flow. These pockets do exist but are not enough to effectively get through a typical aquarium nitrate output considering the rate at which they are produced. That's why we have to water change. There was a guy on here who was trying to make a nitrate filter using the optimum flow rate and some other materials. Not sure how it panned out.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:20 PM   #30
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Riiiiiiiiiiight nitrification denitrification same difference....
Yeah not really those are totally different things.
Obviously I was THINKING of nitrification :P
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