2x 20G Long - questions

[joannde]

I had talked about the 2 20G tanks that my husband found in the attic. I think I actually know what I want to do with them !

I want two cichlid tanks. One SA (Rams) and one Lake Tang (Shelldwellers). The SA tank will be planted and have an Eco-Complete substrate. The Lake Tang tank will have PFS substrate.

Ok, now my questions

How many GBRs, and what proportion of male/female do I do for the SA tank ? And are there any other fish that would fit the theme that I can add (assuming the GBRs don't "use up" the entire bio-load potential).

Same question on the shellies ... I'd like to add a mouthbrooder or cave brooder with them if at all possible, but given the size of the tank I'm not sure that's possible.

Thanks !!!

 

[toddnbecka]

They would be best kept as species tanks if you want to breed the fish and raise fry.
That being stated, here's a link with a few options:http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_20g.php
J. ornatus or transcriptus would be the least likely to cause problems w/shellies. Altolamprologus calvus or comp's will outgrow a 20, though very slowly. They are also fry predators.
The leleupi are aggressive little buggers when they mature, and are generally better suited to a larger tank.
Zebra danios are good dithers, and don't cause problems.

 

[JDogg]

I do not know much about africans, so i will not speak on them.

if you are going with GBR in one tank i have a suggestion. either a pair or 1 male - 2 females. if you are not going to worry about fry then i might suggest cardinal tetra (~6-8) as a small school. they like the higher temps that rams do.

hth

 

[joannde]

Thanks. I love the julies ! Have no idea how I forgot about them. And the rocky habitat is perfect for what I'm envisioning .... cliffs at the edge of the sea (sand and shells). PERFECT ! I love it.

For the GBRs I'm going to be hard pressed to try and raise fry - my pH is 8.2. I'm going to add driftwood to the tank to try and lower that a bit. I was also thinking of perhaps partially using RO water in that tank but I need to read up more on that topic as I'm afraid of causing a potential imbalance along the way. Could I perhaps do one angelfish in that tank with the GBRs ?

 

[JDogg]

Thanks. I love the julies ! Have no idea how I forgot about them. And the rocky habitat is perfect for what I'm envisioning .... cliffs at the edge of the sea (sand and shells). PERFECT ! I love it.

For the GBRs I'm going to be hard pressed to try and raise fry - my pH is 8.2. I'm going to add driftwood to the tank to try and lower that a bit. I was also thinking of perhaps partially using RO water in that tank but I need to read up more on that topic as I'm afraid of causing a potential imbalance along the way. Could I perhaps do one angelfish in that tank with the GBRs ?

angels and rams get along fine in my experience, but i do not know if a 20 long will be tall enough for angels. angels, being tall fish like a tall tank.

 

[joannde]

yes, the height was my concern also --- my master plan however is to upgrade both 20s to 55s. Does anyone know the estimated growth rate of an angel ? I'm thinking I could get away with the upgrade in 12 - 18 months without my husband blowing his cork LOL

 

[Jchillin]

As an Angel keeper, I have to say the "High" tank is completely unnecessary. Unless my angels are planning on going on a growth spurt, they will never have finnage or body size that requires 24" of space. They are almost two years old and are only 6" tall (top of dorsal to bottom of ventral fin), 18-21" is fine. The extra three inches is not going to make a difference in the overall scheme of things.

If I had known this, I would not have purchased a 30g tall for my original Angels. I would have gone with a 20L or even a 40L, which allows more space for making territories and the like. The "high" tanks also limit your stocking because they were designed for angels in mind, not fast, long swimmers such as sharks.

 

[joannde]

As an Angel keeper, I have to say the "High" tank is completely unnecessary.

You just made my day ! I now have the stocking plan for both tanks ! And since Angels are also a cichlid it really fits nicely with the SA cichlid theme !

Now I have to try and track down the shellies (I'm thinking Neolamp. Brevis if I can find them) and the julies (I like the ornatus). I'll start making some phone calls soon - there's an LFS about an hour away that specializes in cichlids.

Thanks for all the help

 

[JDogg]

As an Angel keeper, I have to say the "High" tank is completely unnecessary.

then i lied to my mother!
she was visiting and admiring my pair of angels. we were talking about the fact that she can not keep angels alive in her 20 long. i told she that it was not deep enough, they do well in my tank because it is taller...

oh well maybe it has something to do with the fact she does full breakdown/ cleans once a year, and pwc once every 6 months, does not belive you need to cycle the tank and have never tested the water before...

but then what do i know... my angels live!

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

Personally, I don't think a 20 long is tall enough for angels, but that's only a secondary concern. A 20 long with angels and rams is going to be seriously overstocked, and you're talking about two species of fish that do not tolerate poor water conditions. Even though you said you thought you could get away with a tank upgrade in the future, it's best not to purchase on that assumption. Life gets in the way, and you may not be able to do so when it's needed.

As someone who's kept shellies in 20 longs for years now, my advice is to set the tank up for just the shellies. Little they may be, but they don't realize it and won't back down during territory squabbles. (I've had multis back julies three times their size into corners.) If you've got a larger tank- no problem, but the 20 limits things-- especially when you consider how quickly breeding shellies can populate a tank! Plus, shellies are so entertaining and enjoyable to watch, you'll want to let them have the tank all to themselves.

 

[joannde]

On the SA tank I was thinking either 1 angel and 2 pairs of rams or 2 angels and 1 pair of rams. Is that really overstocked ? Assuming its not, advice on which combo is best is appreciated.

On the Lake Tang tank I was thinking 1 pair of Brevis and 1 pair of J. Ornatus with rocks on one side and shells on the other. No good ?

 

[Jchillin]

On the SA tank I was thinking either 1 angel and 2 pairs of rams...

This is the one. I did make an egregious error in my last post...I should have stated 30 gal standard rather than 20L (never lessen your tank sizes...food for thought).

Afterward, you can still give a dwarf pleco a home as well.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

For a 20G long, I would do 3 rams (1m, 2f, or all m or all f is just fine) and 1 angel, and if you aren't considering breeding, then a group of tetras like the cardinals or rummy nose. But if you are considering Bolivian Rams, then only a pair with tetras, as they grow faster and bigger than GBR's.

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

I suppose you could get away with a pair of brevis and a pair of ornatus in the 20 long- at least for a while- but I'd still highly suggest leaving it a single species tank. Tanganyikan community tanks are a true sight to see, but I'd not attempt it (again) in anything smaller than 40+ gallons. I've tried it with multis and a young pair of J. regani. It worked per se, but things were always tense. Both sets of fish were much happier when the multis went back to a tank of their own.

Personally, I still don't like the idea of rams and angels in such a small tank.