A little confused

[the_elvish_misfit]

I went to my LFS yesterday to pick up some hardware for my 55g, the same one I've been going to for 17 years. The owner noticed the upgrade and asked what I had in the new tank. I told him that there wasn't anything in it yet because I wanted to follow the directions and cycle it properly, so there wouldn't be anything in it for about a month. Well that put him into a long rant about how I don't know anything about fish and if he had to wait a month to put fish in his store he'd be out of the job. Along with several 'Do my fish die on you? Have they ever not lasted years?' mixed in. He also said I wasted my money buying water and a fancy gravel cleaner. He said he only cleans his tanks once a year and just throws in this chemical that balances out the water (I didn't think that was very fair to the fish... something like keeping a person in their own waste and just spraying lysol around to help with the smell and some of the germs). He also said to stop listening to the internet as it's a highway of lies and to do it his way unless I thought I knew fish better than the guy who's been selling them for longer than I've been alive.

I mean in his defense he's never sold me something just for the money, all of his fish ARE basically indestructible and his tanks are always spotless. Even large scale pet stores tanks are somewhat dirty with a few dead fish here and there. He did a strip and a vial test and all the readings were perfect.

But like the tank cycling thing seems to be recycled the most when someone asks how to start a new tank. I was in the middle of it with my 55g but the chemicals I put in it yesterday make me worried. I don't want my fish to die obviously but now my tanks kind of half of the advice from here and half from him and is probably a wet pile of poison.

What should I do from here?

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Of course he doesn't have to wait a month to put fish in his store, he has plenty of cycled tanks to take media from. And if he has a central filtration system, the tank would already be cycled. Fish stores are there to make money off of you. Your mistakes are money in their pockets whether they tell you that or not. They stock chemical after chemical after chemical and try to sell you everything in a bottle. The ONLY thing you need is a dechlorinator and sometimes not even that. pH adjusters, clarity, supposed bacteria bottles, they are all gimmiks.

What exactly is he calling a "fancy gravel cleaner"? A python? If so, that's what all the lfs around here use. I've never seen water changes done any other way at all of the places around here. I can't imagine stores hauling buckets to each and every tank. In regards to the water, why are you buying water for the tank?

If he cleans the tanks once a year and just throws in chemicals, I'd call that bad fishkeeping and wouldn't buy from him. His tanks can't be spotless unless he is doing gravel vacs on a regular basis. Where does the fish waste go? How does he remove Nitrates? If it's by a supposid chemical, I'd be weary.

 

[CTD]

It is one thing to try to educate (or De-educate in this case) a Customer but to berate a Customer now thats not a very smart business practice unless your goal is to go out of business...

I would find another LFS to do business with!

 

[the_elvish_misfit]

He had a gravel cleaner but it was very old and very basic and he used a bucket. Mines not a python but it resembles one (which is ok being that my room is right next to the kitchen and the hose is long enough to drain out the sink).

His selling tanks don't have gravel but the display tanks do, The water that came out of the gravel was basically black.

I guess I'm just overwhelmed with all of this. I should have stuck with rats.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

If the water coming out of the gravel was black, he is waiting way too long to do water changes and I wouldn't trust his advice. But I'm an impartial third party that doesn't make a dime off of giving advice.

It is very overwhelming at first but stick around, you will pick it all up. You will get the hang of everything and will figure it all out. I came to AA a total newbie and had no clue about cycling or the importance of water quality. I kept Bala Sharks in a 10 gal tank along with Plecos and Tetras. We all start from somewhere and can only gain knowledge.

 

[CTD]

Dont get discouraged the_elvish_misfit!

As Fishyfanatic stated no one here has any thing to gain or any reason to give you bad advice.

That is not true in the case of some LFS's and it could be that the guy at the LFS in this case is not Disreputable but just going by old outdated practices and stuck in his ways.

 

[djrusselljoseph]

Sounds like the experienced fishkeeper is going mad.

Find somewhere else to go.

 

[taylorodw]

TEM, I have read a few aquarium books. Although the internet isn't always the most reliable source, everything I've read about cycling, and chemicals, has been backed up here 100%.

 

[Joetoyc]

A friend of mine is a chemist as well as a amature aquarist, and he swears up and down that all you have to do to start a new tank is add water, some ammonia and ph block, plants, and then fish. But i've read a lot of books before starting my tank and every single one of them suggested cycling. I'm sure there is some truth that chemicals can take a tank a long way, but it doesn't seem natural or fair to the fish.

 

[kangster]

i am a chemical engineer and i say no chemicals and yes to a frequent PWC until the tank has cycled
but then again...im no expert at keeping fish

 

[jim692]

Elvish,

From what you describe, he has a fully mature commercial filtration system. He adds chemicals to keep the water in balance probably after doing tests on it. That's a bit different than having a home tank. Also, if you can see through the glass he must clean it more than once a year, LOL. I don't know of a store that doesn't do routine water changes or have a routine maintenance schedule.

I like the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) system for most things I do. If I can keep to a simple maintenance and water change schedule and have no problem with the health of the fish or the look of the tank without chemicals, that works for me. If chemicals are needed for something that's fine, but if not, then I don't see the point of using them. Others may have different opinions but that's their choice on how to basically achieve the same goal.

As for the python it's just a hose that sucks the water and debris out of the tank, and puts new water in. Doesn't sound that fancy to me. Also, I don't enjoy having to carry buckets of tank water across my carpet, and buckets of new water back. For those who don't mind that carry away. He he.

It's your tank, do what works best for you.

 

[booginish]

i cant agree more with fishfanatic, your new to this whole world, its ver overwhelming at first, and the guy your talking to knows that, and is taking advantage of you. he sounds like the kind of guy that gets there early in the morning before the store opens to remove all the dead fish and use a algae scrubber to get rid of any gunk on the tank, thus makeing them appear clear(he sounds like a crooked old man, whose bin doin this for years). what ever chemical he is putting in those tanks, its not good, probly just hiding all the problems he actually has. all you need is a good dechlorinator, some very hardy fish(zebra danios work great) and maybe a small amount of filter media(i wouldnt take any from the guy you know, probly so much disease) and within a month - month and a half you should have a fully cyclled tank with lots of healthy fish, that will love you for your unchemicalized water. i cant imagine how tortured that mans fish must be. i have found in the past fish store employees can be very overbaring with there opinion, they dont like anyone telling them there wrong, or anyone trying to help them, these people are fo-aquariusts, they dont know anything, its just a job for them, they are almost always the worst source of information, they have lead me down many rocky paths. but one thing i can say is that the people on this forum know what there talking about, and it is very worth while to listen to there advice and do everything right, everyone on this site has years of aquarium experience, you cant get any information better than the info you ll get from the people on this site.

 

[booginish]

i owe many thanks to alot of members on this site

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I can't agree more Booginish. I was sold pH down, pH up, clarifiers, ammonia removers, almost all of the bacteria suppliment bottles, and countless types of media that claims to either remove ammonia, nitrates, etc. It's all a complete waste. Ceramic noodles, filter floss, filter sponge, and dechlorinator is all you need.

 

[timwag2001]

Dont get discouraged the_elvish_misfit!

As Fishyfanatic stated no one here has any thing to gain or any reason to give you bad advice.

That is not true in the case of some LFS's and it could be that the guy at the LFS in this case is not Disreputable but just going by old outdated practices and stuck in his ways.

my first lfs owner was very old school and explained what cycling was to me (vaguely) and then told me he thought it was all BS.

what part of RI are you from? i grew up there and live in MA right now. i know of 2 very decent and knowledgable lfs in MA.

 

[the_elvish_misfit]

my first lfs owner was very old school and explained what cycling was to me (vaguely) and then told me he thought it was all BS.

what part of RI are you from? i grew up there and live in MA right now. i know of 2 very decent and knowledgable lfs in MA.

North Providence, but MA is like 5 minutes away.

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

I also owe many thanks to very generous and friendly people on this forum.

So far so good, taking in the words of wisdom found here. My experience has the LFS also giving conflicting advice, and I choose to believe what I have read here and found to be true over some "fish salesmen" even though I do find them friendly.

 

[timwag2001]

my fav lfs
Uncle Ned's Fish Factory

this place has a ton of nice stuff especially for salt water
Tropic Isle Aquarium - The aquarium Experts!