Adding Bolivian Rams

[sp0ng3r]

Hello all,
I have never kept Bolivian rams before, but wanted to get some. My tank is 135gal, and has a large amount of plants and rocks/hiding spaces. My tank is peaceful tank. Harle Rasboras, Juleii corys, rainbows, bristlenose plecos, ottos, and a gourami. Everyone seems to get along well, no aggressive personalities in the tank.

I have been trying to reseach how to sex them (I think I have a decent handle on it, but it is hard to do), and my question is to ask anyone with experience how many to get. I would prefer to just have a pair of them, but the local places I buy fish from have them simply all together in a tank, so finding a paired couple will be unlikely. Should I buy several then have them pair off? What would be my best strategy?

 

[HopefulHobbiest]

i asked roughly the same question on this forum a little while ago but my question was more related to breeding...

either way, everyone that responded to my thread suggested i buy around 6-8 as juvi's and let them pick their own pairs. but for you that may not be cost effective... just something to think about.

 

[sp0ng3r]

Thanks for the advise. I perfer honestly not to keep 8, but I do see your point.

So then let me followup with another question as well.

If I took 4, and lets say I got lucky, and I did actually get one pair. What happens to the other two? If they do not pair off, do the singles just find their own home solo? So I would have maybe two singles, and a pair? I have never kept rams or pairing fish at all actually, so this realm is all new to me.

And worse case senario, lets say I got unlucky, and none of them paired. Am I just stuck with 4 grumpy single rams? How is their temperment when they are not paired off? How close do they usually choose territories? It seems overwhelming, but I am sure I am just reading into it too much.

I also like GBRs, but I like that the Bolivian Rams are a little more forgiving, and can tolerate a little cooler water.

 

[HopefulHobbiest]

i can't really give a 100% accurate answer to your follow up question but my best guess would be that it all depends on the size of the tank and whether or not they can get away from each other or if they have their own caves/hiding spaces. a lot of things come into play when you talk about unpaired fish.

the only thing i can say for sure is that with a big enough tank you shouldn't have any issues...

but i'm sure there's another member on this forum that would be able to provide a better answer for you.

two people that were a huge help to me were RiverCats & JetaJockey... you could always try to search for them and send them a message

 

[sp0ng3r]

Well, I decided to take the plunge today on this. I picked 4 out. Luckily they were patient with me and let me choose which I wanted. I picked two males and two females. They seem to be happy in the tank so far. Oddly enough, they are hanging out in pairs, and they have separated into 1 male, and 1 female per pair, but I seriously doubt this is a real pairing and just a random situation at the moment. Either way, The good news is, these have been at the store for 4 months, and nobody has bought one of them. So they are healthy, which is good news. I had been eyeballing them for the 4 months, but did not assume they were all the same ones. It is pretty sad when the worker there sees you enough to know the size of your tank and what is in it.... I will keep this one updated.

Still looking for an answer on how long it typically takes to pair up if anyone knows. It might not even have an answer. I am sure it is just random. Anyhow, thank you Hopeful for your responses today!

 

[Scottyhorse]

Ooohhh good luck! I hope they really pair up!! You are so lucky to have a 135 gal!! All I have it a 2 gal shrimps tank... But I am going to be getting a 20 or a 25 gal here soon. Hopefully I can get a pair or German Blue Rams.

Keep us posted!!

 

[HopefulHobbiest]

i did want to ask two additional questions....

is your intention to breed or just to have a pair?

if the answer to the above question was breeding, did you get these rams from Petsmart or a local "Non-Chain" fish store??

 

[sp0ng3r]

I got them at a non chain store.

I would love for them to breed, but it is not a requirement.

I have to ask though, whats the difference on the chain vs non chain store? Do the petsmart ones come steril or something?

 

[HopefulHobbiest]

from what RiverCats told me, the GBR or possible other types of rams sold at chain stores like Petsmart and Petco are bred in asia and growth hormones(sp) are used in the breeding process which tends to heavily complicate attempts to breed them later.

the only benefit to using the growth hormones is the coloration of the fish is supposedly amazing(never really bought a ram from Petsmart/Petco so i'm not sure how accurate this color info is) but at the same time its really not a benefit at all cause you can get the same results through diet and living arrangements(low stress).

its extremely unneeded, cruel and as stated above can have affects on breeding attempts later.

the petsmart right around the corner from my house has started to carry German Blue Rams(GBR) and Bolivian Rams but after getting the info from RiverCats i refuse to even look at them. i'll most likely buy mine from Pristine Aqauriums in the next city over or from OddBallFish.com.


as a last side note on this long post, i'm not sure how breeding with yours will go... Rams do take very good care of their offspring but theres only two parents and many many fry to try and round up, this paired with the fish you have in the tank potentially eating the fry, i wouldn't really hold my breath... but who knows, rams can get crazy protective of their fry and breeding territory so you may have some fry actually survive

 

[sp0ng3r]

I am not thinking I have much of a chance on breeding either. I do not have my heart set on it. To be honest with you, my gravel is probably a little large for them to even consider it. I do not have them on sand or even a very fine gravel like they prefer. However, pairing would be exciting even if they do not breed. I have a 20 gallon that I might use for a pair if they match up. Make it their own tank just to see how it goes.

It is good to hear about that regarding petsmart. I am happy to know that, as I will shy away from them more often now.... I have purchased several of my more standard fish from them, but that does not seem to be worth it at all now, knowing this info. My problem would be to know if my fish had the same treatment from the local fish store I purchase from.

Is this common for Petsmart? I have a few rainbows and was curious of they would breed as well, but it sounds like maybe not.

 

[Zevyn]

I picked out two pairs from a tank that appeared to be stocked with full-grown adults to put into two different tanks. In fact they were expensive because of their age.

It seemed easy since there was a pair on one side where one was visibly larger than the other, and another pair resembling the first on the other side. I made sure he bagged them together. The fins all showed the typical signs of sexing, etc.

Fast-forward a few months, and one tank has a pair that hasn't bred. The male doesn't really care much for the female and chases her sometimes (but never bites). The other tank on the other hand, the smaller fish grew to the same size as the larger one and it turns out they're both males.

The more dominant one chases the other to the other half of the tank (but for a long time they got a long in the same space just fine). They both own a half of the tank now, so it's not like the bully is keeping him in a small corner, just off his side.

Honestly, I wouldn't sweat the sexes unless you're absolutely set on breeding. M/F, M/M seems to be perfectly ok in my personal experience even when neither couple likes each other whatsoever. I can't comment on F/F though. This is all assuming you have the floor space to accommodate territories.

Even if you get a M/F pair, they won't necessarily like each other. As was said earlier, the best bet is to buy a bunch of them, wait for them to pair off and then bring the rest back for credit.

 

[HopefulHobbiest]

i don't know if its common practice for all fish at petsmart but i know its pretty much that way with the rams.

also, substrate isn't really an issue, i plan to use a mix of gravel and flourite or eco-complete in my 40G Breeder when i set it up.

from what i've read about the breeding for GBR(and i assume its the same for most rams) they either need a flat surface like a piece of slate or they will dig a pit in the gravel to lay eggs so if you get a pair in the 20G it might actually work.

two good reads:

German Blue Ram (GBR)
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f29/german-blue-ram-by-jchillin-58669.html

Bolivian Ram (this one is probably better suited to your partictular situation, but i've read both lol)
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f29/fish-profile-bolivian-ram-by-bud29-228180.html

both should cover breeding as well if your interested in that later, but they were written by forum members and hold a great deal of information.

Edit - so another thought just crossed my mind.... you may want to be very careful with your rams due to them liking a Ph level a lil higher then the rest of your fish.

 

[sp0ng3r]

Great read. Thank you for the info!

 

[HopefulHobbiest]

not a problem, if you have any other questions just ask