Additional filtration and capacity

[fireman731]

I understand this has probably been beaten like a dead horse and there are many aspects and opinions to it, BUT I wanted to reach out with more specifics to my situation and get a feel for what others opinions are on my situation.

Specs;
28 gal bow front
Sand/gravel substrate
Lightly planted with Java ferns, water wisteria, and amazon swords.
Use root tabs and dose flourish and excel
I have a dual t5 (14w each) and a single t8 (17w?) totaling 45 watts divided by 28 would be about 1.6 WPG.

Keeps around 80 degrees. PH is about 8.3 and water is kinda hard.

Fish;
6 black skirts
6 neons
6 Cory's
And a bristle nose pleco about 5"

Filtration;
I run 2 of the marineland HOBs, sized for 30 gals each at 150 GPH. Totaling 300 GPH turnover.

In the filter I run coarse sponge, fine sponge, a 100 micron felt polishing pad, purigen and a bag of bio max.

With about 10 gal PWC a week about 40% m nitrates usually hand around 10 PPM.

Would you say I am at the stocking limit? Would this latest addition of the second filter creat more biological surface area and increase the bio capacity for small, light load fish such as neons and the like?


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[Shadowraven]

I would say that you are good to go to add more fish. But stocking guidelines are based on the surface area available in the tank for gas exchange to take place. Adding a second filter may help, but if you lose power, you may lose fish as well if it is overstocked.

I answered a similar question to yours about 3 years ago that has some bearing on this and explains what you need to consider before adding more fish. It should help get a better handle on how to do this.

You can read it here: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/water-displacement-158998.html#post1431456

Sorry if you read the old answer first. I had to edit post since I thought you said 10-gal tank, not 28-gal.

 

[Mebbid]

I would say 5 or 6 more small fish would be acceptable in that size tank. Also, no adding more filtration will not change how much fish to add. Thats based solely off of tank volume.

 

[fireman731]

I just figured increased surface agitation and oxygenation with increased bio surface to grow more bacteria would make a difference at least on the quality of the tank if not ability to keep more.


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[Mebbid]

Its less about ammonia consumption that it is nitrate production. You can filter the water all you want but if youre producing too much nitrate its bas for your fish.

 

[fireman731]

Yeah I'm trying to find the equibrium of plants to keep nitrates down


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[BBradbury]

Your Tank

Hello fire...

You could have a few more small fish. Whatever will get along with the fish you have in the tank. You have twice the filtration needed to safely run the tank. You only need 4 times the volume of the tank in gallons. So, a filter with around 120 gph (gallons per hour) rating is plenty.

Don't rely on heavy filtration to keep the tank water clean. It doesn't. It's just taking in toxic water and returning the same water, but just a bit less toxic. Start changing half the water every week and you'll never have to worry about the water chemistry. It will always be safe for the fish and the plants.

I'll take this a bit further and say if you change it this often all the time, you don't even need to test it. The chemistry will always be stable.

B

 

[fireman731]

Yeah I always change about 10 of the 28 gals weekly


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[SFAquariums1]

Hello fire...



You could have a few more small fish. Whatever will get along with the fish you have in the tank. You have twice the filtration needed to safely run the tank. You only need 4 times the volume of the tank in gallons. So, a filter with around 120 gph (gallons per hour) rating is plenty.



Don't rely on heavy filtration to keep the tank water clean. It doesn't. It's just taking in toxic water and returning the same water, but just a bit less toxic. Start changing half the water every week and you'll never have to worry about the water chemistry. It will always be safe for the fish and the plants.



I'll take this a bit further and say if you change it this often all the time, you don't even need to test it. The chemistry will always be stable.



B

I strongly disagree with you saying that if you always change 50 percent of the water you will never have to test it as it will always be stable.

The water you are putting in is tap water. The ph, hardness, etc could potentially be different just by doing a water change. Usually that's not the case but to say that It will always be stable is un true.


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[BBradbury]

Your Tank

Hello SF...

If you have poor tap water, then you'll need to make other arrangements for your water changes. But, this is extremely rare. The fact is, the majority of aquarium fish will adjust to the majority of public water supplies. They have been for decades. The fish simply require pure water all the time. The large, regular water change will guarantee this. Testing or no.

The reason for 99.9 percent of the tank problems people have is they neglect the tank water. By changing a lot of water and changing it weekly you'll remove anything toxic that has dissolved in the water, before it builds to anywhere near toxic levels.

The large, weekly water change is easily the best thing you can do for the tank and will eliminate the need for high end filtration, fancy media, chemicals and anything else that's advertised to keep the water safe for the fish and plants.

I'll have to stick by my statement.

B

 

[fireman731]

I concur with the large frequent water changes statement. If you let the tank go the nitrates build up stress the fish and make them prone to illness. This is a snap of my filter, I run the same in both. Bio max, large sponge fine sponge, purigen sandwiches between the two then a micron felt polishing pad. Works great for me.


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[Mebbid]

I can see both sides of the argument here. Tap water changes seasonally, especially for people living in the country on well water. If you dont test then you will never know that things are starting to go south until its too late. No matter what you do, if you dont know theres high levels of ammonia or nitrate in your tap water you wont have a healthy tank unless you test for it and make allowances for it.

On the other hand, many people are comforta ke enough with their water supply that they stop testing. I find myself in this category.

Some peoe dont need testing regularly, but it never ever hurts to do the tests and its risky to avoid them.

 

[fireman731]

I just keep up with changes and don't test regularly. At least for my 28, I test my 10 gal more often cause it's smaller and more susceptible to error with less volume to work with any mistake can be worse


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[SFAquariums1]

Hello SF...



If you have poor tap water, then you'll need to make other arrangements for your water changes. But, this is extremely rare. The fact is, the majority of aquarium fish will adjust to the majority of public water supplies. They have been for decades. The fish simply require pure water all the time. The large, regular water change will guarantee this. Testing or no.



The reason for 99.9 percent of the tank problems people have is they neglect the tank water. By changing a lot of water and changing it weekly you'll remove anything toxic that has dissolved in the water, before it builds to anywhere near toxic levels.



The large, weekly water change is easily the best thing you can do for the tank and will eliminate the need for high end filtration, fancy media, chemicals and anything else that's advertised to keep the water safe for the fish and plants.



I'll have to stick by my statement.



B

I agree that fish adapt. And though I oppose 50 percent water changes weekly, I am not opposing water changes in general as I understand the necessity. In my opinion water changes are all about balance. If I have a 55 gallon tank, with lots of live plants, and a good source of water movement, and 12 neon tetras. I will need to change significantly less water each week than an overstocked tank, or a tank with 4 goldfish! So I agree that water changes are necesary, however implying that 50 percent weekly water change will prevent just about anything that goes wrong in an aquarium, I disagree with. Also, stating that you don't need to test your water if you do big, weekly water changes is incorrect. Experienced hobbyist learn their water and eventually know their approximate parameters of tap water off their head. However beginners need to know that testing water is important and shouldn't be forgotten just because you do big weekly water changes.


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[Mebbid]

How can you disagree with large water changes preventing most problems? Higher nitrate levels directly decrease the immune response of fish. If you can keep your nitrates at around 10ppm or less then their immune system is most effective fighting off most diseases and preventing them from ever becoming a problem.

 

[SFAquariums1]

How can you disagree with large water changes preventing most problems? Higher nitrate levels directly decrease the immune response of fish. If you can keep your nitrates at around 10ppm or less then their immune system is most effective fighting off most diseases and preventing them from ever becoming a problem.

I can disagree due to experience. I have 12 display tanks, and over 15 breeding tanks. We will live the breeding tanks out of this because they require different care all together.

In my display tanks all are 55 gallons or bigger and all but 3 are heavily planted. The un planted tanks house cichlids. All tanks get bi weekly water changes. I change only enough water to get the substrate clear of the fish poop and un eaten fish food. My levels are perfect and nitrates are always at a comfortable 7-8ppm. No reason to change 50 percent of the water.


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[Mebbid]

Well, not to discount your experience, but im referring to information gathered from scientific studies on the subject. Most people dont have your skills at maintaining perfect water quality so require larger water changes to make up for it. Saying large water changes arent required to someone that is newish to the hobby is pointing them in fhe direction of a catastrophic tank failure.

I will try to dig up fhe scientific study for you regarding fish immunity and nitrate levels.

 

[Caliban07]

Well, not to discount your experience, but im referring to information gathered from scientific studies on the subject. Most people dont have your skills at maintaining perfect water quality so require larger water changes to make up for it. Saying large water changes arent required to someone that is newish to the hobby is pointing them in fhe direction of a catastrophic tank failure.

I will try to dig up fhe scientific study for you regarding fish immunity and nitrate levels.

Hi mebbid

I would be interested in these studies also.

I would like to point out that it is possible to keep nitrates in check with smaller water changes also.


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[Mebbid]

Hi mebbid

I would be interested in these studies also.

I would like to point out that it is possible to keep nitrates in check with smaller water changes also.


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It is possible, but the number of people that are to that point are definitely in the minority.

 

[Just Another Fish Guy]

Not to go too far off topic, but I think the OP will be fine to add a few more fish to his community. Maybe add a couple more Neons and Blackskirts. Adding another filter is definitely not a bad thing; if anything, you're going to get more surface agitation and another filter for BB to populate on. In theory...the more space you have for BB to populate on, the more BB you have, resulting in being able to have a heavier fish load.

In my opinion, I don't see a reason why someone couldn't have a slightly overstocked tank so long as they stay on top of the water changes. I plan to have a slightly overstocked tank because I'd much rather see a tank full of fish then one that looks empty. I also don't have a problem doing water changes. I do a 50% weekly WC now, even though my bioload doesn't force me to do that much. If I needed to increase the amount of water I change each week...or just increase the amount of WCs I do (maybe twice a week) to keep the tank healthy...then I will.