Amazing Ammonia

[KimAnnKitz]

I have posted about my ammonia problem once and since it seems to keep dragging on, I'm posting again because I am so frustrated. I have a Fluval Spec V that has been up and running since February 11 (It's a 5 gallon tank for those of you not familiar with Fluval tanks). For the first week it had just 2 snails and then I added a betta. I had test strips for a while and they were showing everything ok in the tank. After having shrimp die, I purchased the API Master Test Kit and realized that I was having Nitrite and Ammonia problems. It seems I have gotten a handle on the Nitrites, but not the Ammonia. I have been doing water changes of 50% every single day for at least two weeks and still getting Ammonia of at least .25 ppm. I did skip one day because the ammonia test looked yellow to me, but the next day the ammonia was definitely green (.5 -1.0 ppm) I am not sure why I can not get the ammonia under control in this tank. I test the Nitrites and Ammonia daily and then do my water change with Seachem Prime and, recently, Stability. I did do the 7 day course of Stability with no positive results. Honestly I have to say that I think I prefer the Nutrafin Cycle over the Stability as I have had success with it in two other tanks. My last tests were PH 6.5, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0, Ammonia .5 ppm. I know now about fishless cycling but since the tank has a betta, that is not possible. Why is my ammonia still high every day? Oh...I need to mention that this tank is also planted and my plants are starting to suffer a little. I would appreciate any input!

 

[Aquariumfish123]

I have posted about my ammonia problem once and since it seems to keep dragging on, I'm posting again because I am so frustrated. I have a Fluval Spec V that has been up and running since February 11 (It's a 5 gallon tank for those of you not familiar with Fluval tanks). For the first week it had just 2 snails and then I added a betta. I had test strips for a while and they were showing everything ok in the tank. After having shrimp die, I purchased the API Master Test Kit and realized that I was having Nitrite and Ammonia problems. It seems I have gotten a handle on the Nitrites, but not the Ammonia. I have been doing water changes of 50% every single day for at least two weeks and still getting Ammonia of at least .25 ppm. I did skip one day because the ammonia test looked yellow to me, but the next day the ammonia was definitely green (.5 -1.0 ppm) I am not sure why I can not get the ammonia under control in this tank. I test the Nitrites and Ammonia daily and then do my water change with Seachem Prime and, recently, Stability. I did do the 7 day course of Stability with no positive results. Honestly I have to say that I think I prefer the Nutrafin Cycle over the Stability as I have had success with it in two other tanks. My last tests were PH 6.5, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0, Ammonia .5 ppm. I know now about fishless cycling but since the tank has a betta, that is not possible. Why is my ammonia still high every day? Oh...I need to mention that this tank is also planted and my plants are starting to suffer a little. I would appreciate any input!

You might want to check what is in your tap water. Also, do you use Prime?

 

[jwh0818]

You might want to check what is in your tap water. Also, do you use Prime?

They said they use prime.

Op, what I would do is this. Stop doing daily 50% wc. This is only slowing the bacterial growth down significantly. That plus your ph being 6.5 is putting a hurt on the growth. If you can, move the betta to a temp tank or something and let this tank run its course. I just went through a 2 month cycle that kept stalling out because it had fish and I was doing a 50% wc daily. You need to just take a step back and no worry about the tank. It's trying to cycle but, your hindering the bacterial growth with the excessive water changes. Please move the betta to a more manageable tank that you don't mind not cycling and then let your main tank sit for a few weeks. If you can, try and locate some seeded media via LFS or friend or a member here or whatnot.

 

[PerfectDepth]

Op, what I would do is this. Stop doing daily 50% wc. This is only slowing the bacterial growth down significantly.

Not to be rude, but I 100% disagree with this. I suggest doing as many water changes as necessary to get the ammonia down to a safe level, even multiple 50% changes in one day are fine as long as you wait an hour or so in between. Water changes, done properly with dechlorinated and temperature-matched water, will not slow it down. Fish-in cycling just takes longer, there's no way around it. Your fish will thank you. Ammonia is very stressful for fish.

You are correct about the low pH, though.

Another suggestion is to cut back on feedings until ammonia is under control. Feed very small amounts, and cut back feedings to every other day for now. Don't feed any more than your Betta can eat before the food starts to sink to the bottom.

 

[AtHomeWithTwins]

Cant u just throw the betta in a fishbowl for a few weeks and then fishless cycle the tank fully? Would save you alot of water changes and better for the betta.

 

[Pandicorn]

Cant u just throw the betta in a fishbowl for a few weeks and then fishless cycle the tank fully? Would save you alot of water changes and better for the betta.

NEVER put fish in bowls. All fish need filters, even fry. Also, the curved shape of the bowl will disorientate them permanently. Imagine looking through glasses that aren't yours for weeks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jwh0818]

NEVER put fish in bowls. All fish need filters, even fry. Also, the curved shape of the bowl will disorientate them permanently. Imagine looking through glasses that aren't yours for weeks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes you can put a betta in a bowl for a few weeks. With a heater and a filter or even a bucket. Just do daily water changes on that and let the tank cycle. I only speak from experience on this.

 

[Alan26]

Not to be rude, but I 100% disagree with this. I suggest doing as many water changes as necessary to get the ammonia down to a safe level, even multiple 50% changes in one day are fine as long as you wait an hour or so in between. Water changes, done properly with dechlorinated and temperature-matched water, will not slow it down at all. Your fish will thank you. Ammonia is very stressful for fish.

You are correct about the low pH, though.

Another suggestion is to cut back on feedings until ammonia is under control. Feed very small amounts, and cut back feedings to every other day for now. Don't feed any more than your Betta can eat before the food starts to sink to the bottom.

they are both right....if you can't move the fish then daily wc is needed....if you can move them then it's best to let the tank build up and do its thing....

 

[jwh0818]

Not to be rude, but I 100% disagree with this. I suggest doing as many water changes as necessary to get the ammonia down to a safe level, even multiple 50% changes in one day are fine as long as you wait an hour or so in between. Water changes, done properly with dechlorinated and temperature-matched water, will not slow it down at all. Your fish will thank you. Ammonia is very stressful for fish.

You are correct about the low pH, though.

Another suggestion is to cut back on feedings until ammonia is under control. Feed very small amounts, and cut back feedings to every other day for now. Don't feed any more than your Betta can eat before the food starts to sink to the bottom.

You can disagree but the fact is, if your doing daily water changes then your removing all the nitrogenous waste. This waste is needed to create a full cycle. Think about it. When cycling, this waste produces ammonia which in turn causes ammonia to rise; now if your doing a 50% daily water change then guess what? Bye bye ammonia and hello fresh clean new water. That water has to build up ammonia again. Next day same thing bye bye ammonia and Hello clean water. I know from experience, i just went through this a week ago.

The reason cycled tanks don't have this problem is that because the bacteria has built up to withstand the ammonia and clears it before it's detectable.

If you do 50% water changes to your tank daily, what happens? To your cycled tank, what happens? Bye bye cycle. Bye bye ammonia. This will kill the cycling process.

 

[Brookster123]

When doing a fish in cycle it is necessary to do as many water changes as needed to keep your fish safe, will this slow the cycle? Probably.. Is it a must if I want my fish to survive?? Absolutely! This is why fishless cycles are recomended, just dose the amm and sit back and let the tank do it's thing.. I do agree op needs to consider getting the ph to around 7, while the amm is less detrimental at this ph it is hindering the growth if bb.. That brings up another issue, will the amm at that ph even be toxic for the fish?? Threnjen?!?!

 

[jwh0818]

When doing a fish in cycle it is necessary to do as many water changes as needed to keep your fish safe, will this slow the cycle? Probably.. Is it a must if I want my fish to survive?? Absolutely! This is why fishless cycles are recomended, just dose the amm and sit back and let the tank do it's thing.. I do agree op needs to consider getting the ph to around 7, while the amm is less detrimental at this ph it is hindering the growth if bb.. That brings up another issue, will the amm at that ph even be toxic for the fish?? Threnjen?!?!

That's what I'm saying. Remove the fish and finish the cycle fishless. Never would I say don't change the water when doing a fish in cycle. I'm offering an alternative

 

[Brookster123]

That's what I'm saying. Remove the fish and finish the cycle fishless. Never would I say don't change the water when doing a fish in cycle. I'm offering an alternative

that would certainly work! Or...(playing devils advocate ) leave the fish in and get ready to test and change daily..

 

[jwh0818]

that would certainly work! Or...(playing devils advocate ) leave the fish in and get ready to test and change daily..

And be prepared for an extremely long cycle!!! Remember bro, I just went through this!

 

[PerfectDepth]

You can disagree but the fact is, if your doing daily water changes then your removing all the nitrogenous waste.

I don't mean to be nit-picky, but that just is not accurate at all. Only half of the ammonia in the water column is removed, not all of it.

This waste is needed to create a full cycle. Think about it. When cycling, this waste produces ammonia which in turn causes ammonia to rise; now if your doing a 50% daily water change then guess what? Bye bye ammonia and hello fresh clean new water. That water has to build up ammonia again. Next day same thing bye bye ammonia and help clean water. I know from experience, i just went through this a week ago.

But how much experience do you have with fish-in cycling? Trying to rush a fish-in cycle is asking for trouble. When doing a fish-in cycle, patience is a must, and so is keeping the ammonia level no greater than .25 ppm. Fish produce ammonia constantly. As long as there are fish, there is a constant source of ammonia, and the bacteria continue to multiply. There is no "minimum" amount of ammonia required to grow bacteria. If there is ammonia, bb will multiply.

If you do 50% water changes to your tank daily, what happens? To your cycled tank, what happens? Bye bye cycle. Bye bye ammonia. This will kill the cycling process.

I've never had this problem, personally. Normally, there is no need for so many water changes on an established tank, but for example, when treating ich, I don't use any meds, just heat and daily 50% water changes. I've never once crashed an established tank by doing daily water changes.

 

[PerfectDepth]

Never would I say don't change the water when doing a fish in cycle. I'm offering an alternative

If so, your original post was somewhat misleading. It seemed like you were suggesting to stop the water changes whether the fish could be moved or not.

 

[jwh0818]

If so, your original post was somewhat misleading. It seemed like you were suggesting to stop the water changes whether the fish could be moved or not.

No never. It may have been misleading but always do water changes when doing a fishin cyxle

 

[Caliban07]

The fact of the matter is is that your betta is in no immediate danger whilst the ph is as low as 6.5. I agree this needs to be raised though.

You can do smaller water changes whilst the fish is in the tank daily. I'm the mean time you can add a little bit of crush coral to the filter to raise ph slightly.

Add the crushed coral slowly and measure ph daily. You don't want to raise ph to fast or to much as this could harm the fish.

0.25ppm ammonia is a common reading during a fish in cycle and nothing to worry about providing it does not go above this. This is because the API test kit is measuring total ammonia and not the toxic free ammonia which increases as the ph and temp increase.

If you are worried about the toxic free ammonia you can buy the seachem ammonia alert which does measure toxic free ammonia only. You need to keep toxic free ammonia below 0.02ppm.

Use this guide to see where your toxic free ammonia is at. Take your ammonia level (total) and use your temp and ph to calculate it.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

 

[KimAnnKitz]

Ok. I'm going to try to address all the concerns in one post. I don't have a spare tank for the betta and I would hate to put him in a bowl temporarily because he has been in this tank for 5 weeks. I have another tank that I JUST filled and it is doing a fishless cycle. So let's just say I have learned my lesson. The betta in the ammonia laden tank is an expensive fish so I don't want him to die. The oldest of my tanks is about 8 months, so I am new to the hobby. Not knowing any better, I never tested that first tank, just did weekly water changes. That betta is happy and healthy -- especially for a $5 Walmart betta. I really only got concerned and learned about water testing when I started killing RCS. I don't mean to sound heartless but I really didn't know any better until I started reading and reading and reading......I just wanted to save a betta...now I have 4. I feel bad that I may be harming my gorgeous fish. I suppose I could go pick up a temporary bowl. I have a tiny spare heater and small spare filter I could put in it. But then there's snails and the plants in the 5 gallon also.

Someone asked if I use PRIME. I do, but I'm not positive it like it. I was using Jungle Right Start before I started reading about Prime and liked it a lot. Actually was using Right Start and Nutrafin Cycle and like them both. Only changed because of opinions on here. Right now, however, I am using PRIME and STABILITY.

I have read that the ph is kind of low. How can I raise ph safely and slowly? Limestone? Crushed Coral? I'm not sure the Fluval media compartment has any more room for additional media. It is a big sponge with two cutouts for additional media. Right now I have bio balls and Purigen in the sponge. Purigen replaced the carbon in that filter and I am in the process of replacing all the carbon in my other tanks with it.

Next. Is cycling hard on the plants? I have several plants in the tank with ammonia. I have lost one anubius but the other plants are doing pretty well. Also, in the new tank that is cycling I know it's best to dose it with pure ammonia, but I'm not sure where I could find any. I live in a smallish town and have to drive a half hour + for supplies...and not sure where in that area I would buy the ammonia. Can I cycle with some ramshorn snails that have become pests or will they die (I'm not really concerned if they do - I've been picking they babies out and letting them die before disposing of them... I feel so cruel! BUT I would have about 50 now if I had't done this.) I am still somewhat confused about cycling, but know I need ammonia. I also have mystery snails and have temporarily placed one of them in the new tank but I am concerned about him. He is just sitting near the top of the tank and was normally very, very active. He's mot even bothering the food I placed in that tank for him. Obviously I am not very good at the cycling thing even after MUCH reading on the subject. HELP!

for all the help so far. Advice from real people who have had the same problems is so valuable!

 

[KimAnnKitz]

Oh gosh. Forgot this part.... I have tested my tapwater and it had 0 ppm ammonia. I also have a plant substrate in the tank with a layer of fine white sand on top. I have actually come to hate the sand because it is always dirty and very hard to clean. Is the sand in any way contributing to my problems???

 

[Caliban07]

Did you read my post?