Ammonia Nightmare!

[mother2kamryn]

After researching ammonia in california water on the internet... it doesnt seem like its anything new... Aparently they are using it to fight off some cancer causing agent in the water....



"THM's include chloroform---the principal cancer causing agent in the THM group.

As these THM levels in Bay Area water began exceeding the 100 part per billion level, ammonia was added to the water to replace a portion of the chlorine treatment. The result was the chloramine chemical compound which kills your tropical fish and is a disaster for anyone on kidney dialysis.

This is a delicate "balancing act" by the water company---to eliminate widespread disease from bacteria in untreated water---chlorine and ammonia must be added, in some mixture to kill those bacteria---and at the same time keep the THM levels below levels established by the EPA and health professionals as "significant cancer risk" levels.


That is what I found. Even they are aware that it is killing fish. lol.. thanks for everything!

 

[jsoong]

One other thought. Bring a water sample to the lfs for them to test. This will get your NO2 reading & also confirm that your NH3 test is reading right.

Since you are paying through the nose for your fish stuff, they should at least give you a free test!


$18 for a single test! Ouch! I paid only $20 CAnadian for a 7 test master kit from Haugen.

 

[mother2kamryn]

no. both kits have 25 test strips. those are the only test kits they have. and your right. i will take them in there tommorow when im out getting a couple gallons of water for the betta. thank you sssoooo much, everyone.

 

[jsoong]

Just read your thing on Chloramines. This is what we have here too. However, from my water co. Chloramines are stable in water (for at least a week or 2) so you should not see any free NH3 reading.

Chloramine will kill fish, but the Aquasafe should break the chloramine bond & neutralizes both the Cl & NH3 so produced. So this shouldn't be that big of a problem.

Just did a quick Google on Aquasafe. It does not appear Aquasafe will neutralizes NH3 or NO2 while cycling. I guess the bottle is saying that it will neutralizes the NH3 produced from breaking the chloramine bond, but it won't take care of additional NH3 & NO2 produced by fish.

Only "Ammonia converters" I've seen here are Amquel Plus & Prime.

 

[jsoong]

Oh by "7 test master kit" I meant that I can perform 7 different tests - pH, NH3, NO2, etc. I can probably test 100 water samples with this kit.

Sorry to rain on you... but test strips are not that reliable .... so if you are looking at your next purchase, try to find a liquid kit.

 

[dralarms]

I would suggest on getting a water filter on your home, ammonia, man that's just nasty . Two things come to mind, 1 bottled water, 38 gal might not be cheap but it may be what you have to do. 2nd if you do any shopping online go to bigalsonline.com thay have the ap freshwater "master" kit for 12.99, it has everything except for the NitrAtes. You can buy that for around 5 to 6 bucks. All of those are liquid tests and pretty accurate. HTH

 

[Tigerlily]

We have Chloramines in the water here too. When I use my water conditioner, it breaks the chloramine bond and leaves me with slightly elevated ammonia readings (maybe .25 - but no chlorine or chloramine). My tank is completely cycled, so that ammonia is converted pretty quick once it's in the tank. Also, when it is diluted like that (I usually change only 10-15% at a time) there isn't .25 in the tank itself. I never get ammonia readings when I test the tank water itself, and I'm sure that having the fresh water is better than not making the water changes at all - as far as pH and nitrates go. It seems that most of us in heavily populated areas have chloramines in the water, so... I'm not sure that small amount of ammonia really makes a difference, does it? If the tank is cycling, the elevated nitrite levels will be a lot more dangerous to the fish than .25 ppm of ammonia, IMO. Any thoughts? I've never kept angelfish, but I've heard they can be very sensitive - would they react worse to ammonia than the nitrites?

If your tank is not cycled though, it really doesn't seem right to add ammonia, though. I asked about using RO/DI water on this site once before and the consensus was that it was not a good idea for FW tanks, because the basic minerals that fish need would be lacking.

I'm not trying to make things more confusing, I'm just not sure that bottled water is the way to go - especially once the tank is cycled (which will happen mother, hang in there!). Maybe bottled spring water would be OK, but not distilled? Anyone have any opinions?

Oh cycling guru (a.k.a. Allivymar)......

 

[Allivymar]

LOL ok...a quickie opinion before I run off to work.

Whats the ammonia levels for the tap? And just to clarify, are those levels pre-water treatment/water conditioner for the tank? Lastly, whats the tank readings (ammonia/pH/nitrites/nitrates; get the lfs to measure them all)? I realise we haven't gotten the exact numbers yet, and it make it easier when we know exactly what we're dealing with.

If its less then 1.0 from the tap, and less then 1.0 in the tank, I'd do a half and half mix of RO/DI water and tap water. It will add some ammonia, but it shouldn't be a toxic level assuming your pH levels are ok. This way the nitrifying bacteria have something to eat, and your fish won't be in danger.

You can also go the ammonia converter route as I suggested before; it will slow the cycle down immensely, but the point is to have live fish, and if the ammonia levels are high in both the tap and the tank, it may be the way to go. Then hubby can deal with the cycle when he gets home *grin*

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi mother2 kamryn,
I have used bottled spring water before, for my betta. He was in a 1 gallon bowl then, and it wasn't expensive. It was good water for him. I would do this for the betta bowl, and check out the mixture of tap/RO water like Allivymar said, for the tank. I get RO water from a machine at the grocery store for 39 cents a gallon. You could use that for as long as you have your tank.

You could also look into the ammonia converters, like Allivymar said too. It's not a long term solution, but it will take care of the ammonia now, and keep the fish alive.

 

[mother2kamryn]

Ok. I think that I got my betta squared away. But I have another question about my 38 gal. From what reading I have done on all the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate in the cycling of a new tank, I understand that by taking some gravel from and established tank and putting it in the cycling tank will help speed up the process. by transfering the "good stuff" to the tank. does anyone know anything about this? As of right now the only other tank that I have set up is the 2 gal tank with the beta. now there is only a heater and airation. there is no filter. but shouldnt the gravel have the good stuff in it? Thanks once agian.

 

[dralarms]

Nah, your going to change his water out once a week.

 

[mother2kamryn]

So becuase I completely change the water out once a week the "good stuff" is not presant? If that is the case then that too would make sence. Sorry I have been such a pain. I have done what you all have told me too. Im leaving the tank alone. So far I havent lost anymore fish.

 

[An t-iasg]

Well, most betta bowls or small tanks (2 or 2.5 gallon) don't cycle. You just do a water change, about 20%, twice a week, when the ammonia gets high (over .25) That's where your test kits come in. But, bettas are a little tolerant of higher ammonia. I guess what I mean is, just change his water twice a week. Save your ammonia tests for the bigger tank. That way you will be ok with the betta ammonia level, and use the tests, where it's more crucial, in the big tank. Especially if you use bottled spring water for the betta, and change twice a week, his ammonia shouldn't become a problem.

Gravel from an existing tank that cycled will help start a new tank, and make it cycle faster. Bio-Spira, from Marineland, will also cycle a tank in 24 hours. But it's expensive, and if you've used ammonia converters (Amquel) then you can't really use Bio-Spira until you're removed all the amquel. The Amquel will just bind to the ammonia, making it unavailable to the Bio-Spira, and wasting the Bio-Spira. But Bio-Spira will cycle the tank, though. If you have gravel from a cycled tank, go ahead and put some of that gravel in the big tank, and the betta bowl. It can't hurt anything. I think Allivymar cycled her 2.5 gallon betta tank.

In order to remove the Amquel or similar product, if you used it, I would recommend water changes with the RO water, maybe mixed half and half with your tap water, to lower the ammonia levels from the tap. Then the Bio-Spira, or established gravel, will work better.

I hope this helps! I know how overwhelming this can be at first. Please keep posting!

 

[mother2kamryn]

I just want to say Thanks agian to everyone who has helped. My ammonia levels are comming down. I think the nitrite comes next in the cycle. If they made it through the ammonia hopefully they will make it through the rest of it.

As far as freshwater goes we have two 1gal, a 2 gal, 5 gal, 10 gal, and a 38 gal. In the next 6 months we want to once agian invest in another large tank and try saltwater next. Does anyone know of any good websites that we could start learning our ABC's in salt water aquariums? I want to be completely educated before we start putiing out that kind of money on salt water tanks.

Thanks agian. As I will keep you posted on my cycling 38 gal tank. Hopefully it has a happy ending.

 

[Tigerlily]

Hi mother2kamryn:

This is a great place to start learning about saltwater! There are some excellent articles in the articles section about saltwater tanks, and the advisors (and others) in the saltwater forums really seem to know their stuff too.

There is also a book called the Consciencious Marine Aquarist that many people recommend. I just bought it and think it is great - I'm also planning my first salty tank!

Good luck and keep us posted on how your fish are doing!!

 

[Allivymar]

OMG. Salt water? And he's never around to deal with the FW issues? Water parameters are even more specific for a SW tank; don't let him set up a tank and run mother2kamryn LOL

And the Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner is an awesome book I also own a copy! I found it cheapest at www.BigAlsonline.com

 

[ferret]

My suggestion, m2k (hehe) is that you begin earnestly doing your own research, and cut your husband out of the picture ;P. It is apparent that while your husband may be the force behind fish keeping, you are the one getting shouldered with the responsibilities and maintenance. Read up all you can on SW, and when it comes time to make your purchases and setup, bring a frying pan and hit him everytime he does something stupid

 

[mother2kamryn]

lmao. you guys are too much. I dont mean to make my husband out to be the bad guy. He has the best of intentions. But he is in the marine corps and when they say jump he has to jump. Most of the leaving me behind. I have learned so much in the last 3 days about fw its not even funny. And I have this website and you veryhelpful people to thank. But yeah, Im asking now about the sw stuff because he mentioned it agian when he called and I want to know the ropes before he gets the chance to leave me in a situation like this agian. I want to know as much as possible so that I can maintain, prevent, and help the lil fishies in both fw and sw. Thanks agian. UPDATE: Both angels and pleco's still alive. Tank still picks up some ammonia but its comming down. woohoo!

 

[William]

Its probably the water conditions, Your fish are used to the water conditions in your old home.

The water supply coming from your new home is no doubt drasticly different then what was in NC.

I'm willing to bet their in some kind of pH shock or something of a similar nature.


and don't use dipstrip testing, go out and buy a testkid that has the testtubes that you have to mix the chemicals, Dipsticks give false readings quite often.


Since saturday? not even a week, I doubt its a cycling problem... I'm willing to bet its the local water supply being different, as i said above.


Water is not just water, Every place you go to has different pH, Hardness, Ammonia, Nitrate, ect ect levels. If you moved from a 6ph to a 8.2ph, for example, your fish would go into pH shock.


EDIT.

Okay, stupid me. Didn't realize there was 4+ pages to this thread.

I'll be going to hide under my rock of shame now..

 

[freshwatergal]

I'm glad to hear that your fishies are still kickin'! Keep us posted on what else is happening...