Ammonia not going away

[Bwanny]

Hey guys this is now my second post on ammonia. Im still having issues and ive had this issue for about 3 weeks now. Ive done literally everything i can think of to get rid of the ammonia. My levels consistently read around .50. I do a water change and it seems to read as though there is none. Then when i wake up in the morning the ammonia levels are bacj around .50. I am doing 50% water changes every day using conditioner to make the water safe as well as a dose of prime that i add to the bucket then dump that into the tank to turn it into ammonium.

My nitrite and nitrate levels are at 0. I recently lost a jack dempsey due to a drastically low pH and to fix the pH i am using argonite in a mesh bag to buffer the pH to roughly 7.0. Ive added aquarium salt, melafix (to fix the injuries sustained to my oscar) and pimafix to prevent infection.

During water changes i have ensured that i am getting deep into the gravel. I have removed all but one decoration for hiding spots and i have removed all other possible sources of fish waste. I have not cleaned my filter to ensure that the bacteria have something to feed off of. I also added seachem stability to increase bacteria.

I simply do not understand where this ammonia is coming from within even 12 hours after a water change. If anyone can maybe help or clarify what is going on please do. I have had this tank set up for almost 2 years and cannot seem to find out why this is happening. I havent changed my filter pads in maybe a month which i was informed to never change them unless they are almost falling apart and i should only wipe them off in dicarded tank water to maybe clean them a bit.

Any suggestions as to what i should do here? Im getting frustrated with this issue and cannot simply stand to lose another precious fish.

As a side note i have read nothing bad about API ammo chips to remove ammonia. What does everyone else think about them. Are they effective? What are the issues that could come about with using them? Has anyone had success with this product? And how do they exactly work?

Thank you all so much!

T

 

[Caliban07]

Hi mate.

Seems like there's a lot going on at the moment. This is a trap the new fish keepers tend to fall in to including myself. You need to take a step back and breathe. It's not that bad.

It's unlikely that ph killed your fish. The new tank and unstable parameters are the more likely culprit.

How big is the tank? Jack Dempsey's are big on the waste production scale and if you have more similar fish this is why ammonia is getting so high. You will probably find that bigger fish are more susceptible to these toxins.

Just keep doing daily water changes and using prime. Tanks can take weeks to cycle. Somewhere between 4-5 weeks is the norm so you have a couple of weeks to go yet. It may also be worth checking your tap water for ammonia readings. Raising the ph will increase the toxicity of ammonia so you don't want to mess with ph at this point. The ph is fine.

As long as you are diluting the ammonia via water changes, not feeding too much (more ammonia) and binding the ammonia with prime the fish will be ok. Prime only binds ammonia so it will still show on the test kit.

You may have other issues to think about. Fish stress from incompatible tank mates could cause or exacerbate other health related problems.

Take things easy. Ammonia chips is another trap you don't want to fall for. Water changes daily and prime will save your fish from ammonia problems. A lower ph will help too.


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[Bwanny]

Hi mate.

Seems like there's a lot going on at the moment. This is a trap the new fish keepers tend to fall in to including myself. You need to take a step back and breathe. It's not that bad.

It's unlikely that ph killed your fish. The new tank and unstable parameters are the more likely culprit.

How big is the tank? Jack Dempsey's are big on the waste production scale and if you have more similar fish this is why ammonia is getting so high. You will probably find that bigger fish are more susceptible to these toxins.

Just keep doing daily water changes and using prime. Tanks can take weeks to cycle. Somewhere between 4-5 weeks is the norm so you have a couple of weeks to go yet. It may also be worth checking your tap water for ammonia readings. Raising the ph will increase the toxicity of ammonia so you don't want to mess with ph at this point. The ph is fine.

As long as you are diluting the ammonia via water changes, not feeding too much (more ammonia) and binding the ammonia with prime the fish will be ok. Prime only binds ammonia so it will still show on the test kit.

You may have other issues to think about. Fish stress from incompatible tank mates could cause or exacerbate other health related problems.

Take things easy. Ammonia chips is another trap you don't want to fall for. Water changes daily and prime will save your fish from ammonia problems. A lower ph will help too.


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This is probably one of the more relaxing and helpful responses i have recieved so thank you for your input. I currently have a 55 gallon tank and i have 3 fish in it: an oscar a jewel cichlid and a silver dollar. Indeed my tank is overstocked but my logic brought me to the thought that even with everyday water changes this problem would go away.

As a side note this isnt exaclty a new tank. Ive had the tank for roughly a year and the fish are almost 2 years old. So its just strange to me that this problem is now presenting itself this month.

Thank you for the input on ammo chips. Ill steer clear of those and advise others to as well. Ive read that the fish i have like a higher pH and any time i lower the pH the oscar sheds his slimecoat and becomes extremely lethargic so im trying to keep him happy. My pH right now is 7.4 and the fish are doing great. Daily water changes have been maintaining the ammonia level to .50.

Thank you again for the info on the cycling process. Its been roughly 3 weeks since this has happened. I must have done something to stress the tank and send the cycle out of order. Ill hang tight and continue to pray that the cycle kicks in the next couples of weeks.

As a caveat i have also checked my tap water for ammonia as well and the test did not come up positive. If you have any other advice please let me know. You have been a great help

 

[Caliban07]

This is probably one of the more relaxing and helpful responses i have recieved so thank you for your input. I currently have a 55 gallon tank and i have 3 fish in it: an oscar a jewel cichlid and a silver dollar. Indeed my tank is overstocked but my logic brought me to the thought that even with everyday water changes this problem would go away.



As a side note this isnt exaclty a new tank. Ive had the tank for roughly a year and the fish are almost 2 years old. So its just strange to me that this problem is now presenting itself this month.



Thank you for the input on ammo chips. Ill steer clear of those and advise others to as well. Ive read that the fish i have like a higher pH and any time i lower the pH the oscar sheds his slimecoat and becomes extremely lethargic so im trying to keep him happy. My pH right now is 7.4 and the fish are doing great. Daily water changes have been maintaining the ammonia level to .50.



Thank you again for the info on the cycling process. Its been roughly 3 weeks since this has happened. I must have done something to stress the tank and send the cycle out of order. Ill hang tight and continue to pray that the cycle kicks in the next couples of weeks.



As a caveat i have also checked my tap water for ammonia as well and the test did not come up positive. If you have any other advice please let me know. You have been a great help

Ok your welcome. Unfortunately I am not qualified to comment on the requirements of your current fish so others may have to help there.

It is believed that ph levels lower the 6.5 can disrupt the production of the nitrifying bacteria with my result in temporary accumulation of ammonia, however, ammonia is not toxic at a ph of 6.5 as the majority of this nitrogen compound switches to the less toxic ammonium. I think this is how prime works. That's why it still shows up on the liquid tests because the liquid tests do not care what form ammonia is in it measures the total.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

This chart will help you to understand when to be concerned with the ammonia.

The fish you have create lots of ammonia whether through respiration or waste production so any upset to the system will spiral out of control fast, especially in a smaller tank.

Disrupting the filter media by heavy cleaning or cleaning with tap water will damage the colony. Not dechlorinating tap water can result in bacteria blooms.

Normally I would suggest plants as a means to help control excess nitrogen be it ammonia or nitrate but Cichlids and plants don't mix well. In this case a good floating plant that has access to atmospheric carbon and lots of light will drink these nutrients for fun and provide cover for the fish. Cichlids (and some humans) eat duckweed readily but it is a pain to get rid of if you don't like it.


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[Bwanny]

Ok your welcome. Unfortunately I am not qualified to comment on the requirements of your current fish so others may have to help there.

It is believed that ph levels lower the 6.5 can disrupt the production of the nitrifying bacteria with my result in temporary accumulation of ammonia, however, ammonia is not toxic at a ph of 6.5 as the majority of this nitrogen compound switches to the less toxic ammonium. I think this is how prime works. That's why it still shows up on the liquid tests because the liquid tests do not care what form ammonia is in it measures the total.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

This chart will help you to understand when to be concerned with the ammonia.

The fish you have create lots of ammonia whether through respiration or waste production so any upset to the system will spiral out of control fast, especially in a smaller tank.

Disrupting the filter media by heavy cleaning or cleaning with tap water will damage the colony. Not dechlorinating tap water can result in bacteria blooms.

Normally I would suggest plants as a means to help control excess nitrogen be it ammonia or nitrate but Cichlids and plants don't mix well. In this case a good floating plant that has access to atmospheric carbon and lots of light will drink these nutrients for fun and provide cover for the fish. Cichlids (and some humans) eat duckweed readily but it is a pain to get rid of if you don't like it.


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This is great thank you so much

 

[54seaweed]

just read through your post , sorry to hear you are having issues with ammonia.
while reading through your post not once did I see anything about a cycle,
the reason you keep seeing ammonia is your tank never went through a nitrogen cycle
this helps build (bb) beneficial bacteria once you have established this it will consume the ammonia ,
this should help you with all you need to know

Guide to Starting a Freshwater Aquarium - Aquarium Advice

 

[Caliban07]

As a side note this isnt exaclty a new tank. Ive had the tank for roughly a year and the fish are almost 2 years old. So its just strange to me that this problem is now presenting itself this month.

Looks as the the cycle was just disrupted.


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[jarrod0987]

Seems like something kills off Bacteria sometimes. It has happened to many of us. No one knows why. Give it time to re grow. I like some of the bottled bacteria products but others feel they are a scam. In my experience they speed things up. Also make sure you have good aeration. The surface must be disrupted. Bacteria need oxygen to work well.

 

[Caliban07]

Seems like something kills off Bacteria sometimes. It has happened to many of us. No one knows why. Give it time to re grow. I like some of the bottled bacteria products but others feel they are a scam. In my experience they speed things up. Also make sure you have good aeration. The surface must be disrupted. Bacteria need oxygen to work well.

+1 on oxygen.


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[gilpi]

I'm reading in your post you changed the filter pads?
That could be part of the problem, it's almost as if you're starting a cycle every time you replace filter pads.
I might have missed something in between postings but let the filter media age and never change it, just lightly rinse it in aquarium water.

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[Bwanny]

My cycle was going great. For some reason everything just crashed. I have a 60gal air pump that is throwing bubbles everywhere. So i think i have enough oxygen in the tank. To add to that it doesnt seem as though my fish are struggling to get oxygen. I guess its just the waiting game. Everyday ive been doing 50% water changes, adding prime, aquarium salt, stress coat, seachem stability, pimafix and a regular dechlorinator. Just waiting for this ammonia to stop spikijg back up to .50 every single day. Its annoying and in not sure whats taking so long considering i now have the ph buffered with crushed coral. The my oscar which recently took a hit had regrown a lot of his fins and the damage to his body is getting better. The other two fish i have left with the oscar are haplily swimming around.
Whatever i have to do to keep my babies alive and happy ill do it.... i just wish it was less maintenance for right now.

 

[PB_Smith]

if you do a water change and all is good and then a few hours later ammonia appears...
hmmm, maybe your tapwater is treated with chloramine and not chlorine.
While it is bound with the chlorine, the ammonia won't register, but when the chlorine is "neutralized" by conditioners or aeration, it frees up the ammonia.
Was actually a big pain in the butt 40 years ago when chloramine was first being used.
first test some tapwater right from the tap, than treat it with your water conditioner and let it sit overnight and then test for ammonia, if there was no ammonia initially and then it appeared, it is most likely chloramine. although Prime should take care of that.


One other consideration is that fish grow. While your filtration scheme may have been able to handle the bio-loads when the fish were 3", it may be overwhelmed if the fish have grown to 6".


What do you have on the tank in terms of filtration?
My guess is that the fish have outgrown the bio-load capacity of your current filtration set-up and you need to increase it's capabilities.


Personally I think you are also dumping far too many chemicals into the tank. You should only need to use Prime to condition new water.

 

[Bwanny]

I'll test it again. Initially i found no ammonia. I currently have a 75 gallon filter from marineland. I think im going to try getting a canister filter or something. What does everyone recommend? I dont want another thing sitting on the ledge of my tank.