Ammonia problems

[confusion]

I have a 10G tank that I'm using as a quarentine. It's not cycled (not is my 55G). I have had a few swordtail die in the 10G - one from a big lesion I can only assume the other was from ammonia poisoning.

Anyhow, the male swordtail has ich and is not eating and just slowly moves about the tank. My ammonia level has been between .5ppm and 1ppm in that tank. For the past 4 days, I have been doing a 50% PWC in the morning and another 50% in the evening.

Up till yesterday, I had a brood of 19 baby swordtails (about 3/16" to 1/4" long) in the 10G tank with an adult male swordtail and a pleco. I moved the babies to my 55G tank, hoping that the additional water volume will help them out, and the reduced bio load would help the 10G tank.

I tested the ammonia yesterday morning and found it at about 1ppm. After yesterday morning's 50% PWC and removing the babies, I tested the tank after about 15 minutes. The reading was about .5ppm. I tested again after about 2 hours and the ammonia was back up to near 1 ppm. I was quite concerned that my swordtail is having trouble breathing still, so I did roughly an 80% PWC. I tested after about 15 minues and ammonia was at near 0ppm. I was happy. I waited about another hour and retested, and ammonia was back between .5ppm and 1ppm.

I'm somewhat at a loss as to why I can't keep the ammonia down for more than an hour or so. The only thing I can think that might be causing a problem is that I'm treating the water with copper safe and maracyn 2 to try to heal my remaining swordtail.

Any advice? I dumped in some bio-spira over the weekend, but I've done so many PWC's that I can't imagine that much is left (that's expensive waste water, I must say) I'm going to stop on my way home and pick up some more bio spira for both tanks tonight, and put it in after I do some PWC's.

Thanks,

Jerry

 

[tbonem91]

what kind of filtration are you using?
how often are you feeding?
when you change the water, do you gravel vac as well?
is it just the single swordtail in the 10g?
why are you using maracyn 2?
Instead of using Coppersafe to trat the Ich, you can simply raise the temp to 87-88 degrees and leave it there for 2 weeks after the last white spot dissapears.
Are you treating your rap with dechlor? if so, what kind?
is the bio-spira refrigerated? if not, then it is a total waste of money becasuse the bacteria are dead.
Do you have any nitrIte reading yet?
how long has this tank been setup with fish?

 

[confusion]

what kind of filtration are you using?
- it's a cheap top fin charcoal filter for 10G aquarium. probably not adequate for a full load of fish.
how often are you feeding?
- lately, not often. The swordtail is on a hunger strike
when you change the water, do you gravel vac as well?
- It have been. Despite that, there is a fair amount of stuff that floats up as I'm pouring the water in.
is it just the single swordtail in the 10g?
- one swordtail (2") and one pleco (3")
why are you using maracyn 2?
- the swordtail is sick. I've been having bad luck with keeping them alive - sores, ick and whatnot.
Instead of using Coppersafe to trat the Ich, you can simply raise the temp to 87-88 degrees and leave it there for 2 weeks after the last white spot dissapears.
- I was trying that, but the fish was heading downhill pretty fast and opted for this route.
Are you treating your rap with dechlor? if so, what kind?
- I'm using 5ml/5G of aqua-safe
is the bio-spira refrigerated? if not, then it is a total waste of money becasuse the bacteria are dead.
- yes it was
Do you have any nitrIte reading yet?
- no I do not
how long has this tank been setup with fish?
- about 10 days

 

[tbonem91]

well, plecos are major poopmachines and if you are constantly seeing detritus being stirred up, that is your source of ammonia. PWC combined with gravel vacs will reduce it but since you are nearing your ammonia spike in your cycle, you dont want to remove all of the waste completely - just keep doing water changes to keep it below 1ppm - soon it'll start converting to nitrite and you'll have to battle that down. Biospira seems to be a hit or miss as far as actually working to cycle your tank - one thing you can do is get some plants into the QT to help take up some of the nutrients - some low light ones will help a little.

also, if you are using Carbon and dosing medication, then you are probably just wasting the medication because the carbon will absorb it all...

 

[confusion]

Both meds, coppersafe and maracyn 2 say they are ok to "maintain normal filtration". I've read many posts about removing the carbon from the filter when medicating, and I have some meds that do say to remove the carbon from the filter, but these two specifically say it's ok. Are they leading me astray?

 

[SCFatz]

Perhaps... for instance I could just maintain normal filtration because I use no carbon on an everyday basis....most here don't,so it wouldn't be a problem.

IMO...don't run carbon while medicating

 

[SCFatz]

whoops...posted twice.

 

[TomK2]

When treating a QT with meds, I think you would have to use water changes to keep the ammonia down. Despite what the label says, there are those here on AA who have had ammonia spikes after using Miracyn and other antibiotics, presumably due to impairment or destruction of the bacteria. Fresh carbon would likely adsorb some of the meds, older carbon is likely to have ceased adsorbing things.

 

[TomK2]

Oh, and you have two uncycled tanks a 55 and a 10 gal QT? And you get ammonia levels in the 0.5 to 1 ppm range even right after a water change? I would test your tap water for ammonia. If your municipal water supply has chloramines in it, the liquid two bottle salicylate ammonia test (ie: Aquarium Pharmacueticals) will turn color. You can not water change your way lower than your tap chloramine levels until the early part of the cycle is over. If you do have chloramines, you always need to use a dechlorinator to break the chlorine- ammonia bond in chloramines, so that your filter can dispatch the ammonia.

 

[7Enigma]

TomK2, I don't think he has chloromines in his tap. He said his water changes were lowering the ammonia levels to under 1 (0.5 one time and close to 0 the other time), so it appears he has either none or very low levels.

And yes that 3" pleco in the 10gallon is going to seriously cause ammonia problems. Any way you can move him as well to the 55gallon?

Heat treatment for Ich is the best method because it has a beneficial effect on the bacteria (warmer temps speed replication of the bacteria) and it does NOT harm bacteria (as some meds seem to). Yes you will possibly see a NEGATIVE effect on the fish when you first heat the tank up. This is due to the Ich's metabolism and life cycle speeding up as well. While this might look bad for the fish, its a short term problem.

I'd turn the tank temp back up to 88F, stop dosing meds (they will be diluted out from all the PWC's eventually), feed sparingly (you seem to be doing this), and "maybe" add some plants and turn the lights on.

You very well even in low light get an algae outbreak due to the ammonia levels, but frankly it might not be such a bad idea to get algae right now (they will feed on the ammonia). While it won't look great in the tank, it will actually be beneficial to the fish.

goodluck,

justin

 

[TomK2]

UH, musta missed that when reading the posts.

 

[confusion]

Just to close this out...

My swordtail died. It turned out to not be ich, but another baterial infection. It looked a lot like ich until it progressed for a few days and became stringy/fuzzy. I tried giving him some maracyn, but it was too late.

When I got home this day, though, the ammonia levels were back down in the .25ppm range, after being up at 1+ppm in the morning. No nitiries or nitrates, so I think I may have been having some problems with my test kit or something.

I hit my 55G with another round of bio spira on Monday and it seems to be cycling. ammonia ~1.5ppm, nitrites .25ppm, nitrates 5ppm. I'm guessing it'll take a few days to get to the point where the bacteria are processing all of the ammonia.

I hit my 10G tank with another bio spira attack last night after a hefty water change so hopefully it'll be cycling well tomorrow.

thanks for all the help!