angel fish fins -- help!

[horsedogfish]

My veil tail and fins angel was happy in his 30 gallon tank with a red-tail black shark, two clown loaches, and small cichlid. I got two yellow paradise South African cichlids and all heck broke loose. The shark became aggressive and was chasing the new yellows, and the clowns and red are hiding. He never chased the Angel. However, a couple of days ago the shark stopped chasing the yellows except for a little bit a feeding time. The Angel and one of the yellows are best of friends, hanging out at the front of the tank together. Where the Angel goes, the yellow is right there with him. But behind the scenes (at night?) someone is eating the Angels tail and fins!!!! I have never seen any of the fish bother him. What are your opinions about the culprit. And should I feed them more often? Will the Angel's tail and fins grow back once I remove the culprit? Is there anything I should treat the tank with (like Prime or StressZyme) to keep the Angel healthy?

Thanks in advance.

 

[dalto]

Well, you have some pretty interesting fish there.

I am not sure what a "yellow paradise South African cichlids" is. Do you you have a picture of it?

Those clown loaches grow to be 12-16" long and need at least a 4 ft tank.

I would guess the shark or your new cichlids are messing with the angel fins. I would want to know what kind of cichlids those are fist though.

 

[absolutangel04]

Well, you have a couple of issues here. First off, your angel is not likely having its fins eaten because a fish is hungry. You have quite a few territorial species in a rather small space, so IMO you are seeing some territorial nature come out. Your tank is too small for a red tailed shark, and might well be too small for those new cichlids and your unnamed "small cichlid" as well. Do not feed them more to fix the problem. If anything, that will make issues for your angel worse because the water will get dirty faster can the angel will have to fight harder to get it's fins back.
Now, either a fish is harassing your angel at night and biting its fins, or else the angel is unwell and fin rot or some such thing is destroying them. Angel fins do not tend to stay pretty when the angel is too stressed. I think somebody is nipping at them though. Since it is at night, your shark is a prime suspect. However, since you added new fish, they are suspects as well.
To help offer suggestions to fix the situation, could you please get us some pictures of the cichlids, and also of the angel's fins? In addition, do you know your water parameters like the ammonia level? Clean water will help the angel heal faster. I would not treat the tank yet until you have an idea of what is going on. Those sounds like some cool species and we would love to help you out to make a tank where every inhabitant is happy.

 

[mikem691]

"yellow paradise South African" This I believe is a collection area for some riverine cichlids. The op may be talking about jewels but not sure. IMO nothing from Africa should be in with angels.
http://www.yellowfishparadise.co.za/

 

[horsedogfish]

I took the photos. How to I post them here?

The red cichlid is Ctenopoma Ansorgi.

The angel is in that tank because the tank came with the angel and ten gallons of really slimy water. I didn't move him to my other tank because I was repeatedly told not to put him in with my variety of tetras because they are notorious fin nibblers. I specifically asked at two reputable LFS about adding the shark and the cichlids. I was told the shark would become aggressive, and I knew I would have to rehome him. I know the clown loaches would out grow my tank but figured I'd rehome them and get new babies. They are so cute! I never realized how fast all my fish would grow!!!!

Will post photos of Angel and yellow paradise cichlids as soon as I know how.

 

[CCXGT]

This is a setup that is just destined to fail.
Both the RTBS and Clown will outgrow the tank.

The Yellow Paradise Cichlid is not a fish, either you've given them this name yourself or were misinformed by your LFS.
What you've probably bought are Yellow Lab's, which are an African Rift Lake Cichlid.
They have a very aggressive temperament to any fish that can't stand up to them and WILL continue to bully the weaker fish until death.

Either get rid of the Africans or don't expect to see your Angel having a good time.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[CCXGT]

Do the fish look anything like this:



Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[dalto]

To post the pictures there is a button at the bottom that says manage attachments.

 

[horsedogfish]

Yes, that's the fish. My LFS had this label on the tank and it is what was rung up on the cash register.

Can I put my Angel in with neons, glow fish tetras, and red black-tail veil-tail tetras?

Thanks

 

[dalto]

That yellow fish is Labidochromis caeruleus, more commonly known as the "Yellow Lab". L. caeruleus is an mbuna from Lake Malawi in Africa. It is one of the most peaceful of the Malawian cichlids but still too aggressive for most community tanks. I have seen them work in community settings but it is the exception more than the rule. I would recommend either bringing them back or setting up a tank more suited to these fishes. I would also recommend not listening to any further advice from a fish store that calls this fish the "yellow paradise South African cichlid". It is, after all, one of the most common rift lake cichlids. Any LFS that doesn't know what this is has some serious limitations.

Ctenopoma Ansorgii is not a cichlid at all but an anabantoid more closely related to the Gourami. I would worry about it being picked on as well so it might be worth keeping an eye on.

As for putting the Angelfish in with the Tetras, it will eat the neons as soon as it is big enough. I am not that familiar with the dispositions of the other fish but if they are nippy they will harass the Angel more than likely.

I am sorry I don't have better news but it sounds like you are the victim of some bad advice from your LFS.

 

[absolutangel04]

I fully agree with dalto's above post. You have not been given very good info by your lfs about what fish you actually have. You have plenty of different option though for some different fish that would be more suited to each other and to your tank.
An angel with neons is hit or miss. Sometimes when raised with them from a young age it is fine and the angel never sees them as prey. Other times, the angel will get big enough and then eat all the neons. Personally, I have seen them eat neons more times than not so I would avoid it.
I am not a fan of buying a fish you know you will not be able to house permanently (ie. clown loaches). They do grow slow, but by purchasing them, you are encouraging a store to get more in stock and then sell those to more people who may never re-home them. Also, fish do not always grow properly when they do not have enough space and you could damage them and stunt their growth permanently thus potentially shortening their life span quite a bit. Also, you are just pushing the responsibility onto somebody else to be able to home them later. Clown loaches get big, and not everybody can/should own them. Plain and simple. If you want a loach, why not look into one of the smaller, more suitable species that you wouldn't have to worry about re-homing later? Clowns loaches do grow quite slow, so you have some time. Same goes for the shark, except it grows more quickly than the loaches. You are also risking shortening the shark's lifespan by keeping it potentially too long and stunting its growth. One more species that not everybody can/should own. I would return the shark fairly soon if I was you and get fish you can actually house long term.

 

[horsedogfish]

The angel is more than five years old and lived with a Jack Dempsey and an Oscar until they died. His owner was going to flush him and take the tank to the dump. The owner of this particular LFS was very knowledgable but he died recently. His kids (in their early twenties) apparently don't know as much as they think they do.

Can the C. Ansorgii go in with the tetras? There's a golden gourami in there who gets along with everyone else. Since I have the clown loaches, can I keep them in with the yellow fish? I'm thinking it would be easier to rehome the angel and the shark and keep the yellow fish and, for now, the clown loaches. What fish go with the yellow ones? Obviously the LFS and the charts in my two books don't know. Here I spent months and months planning these tanks.

Thanks for your help!

 

[dalto]

The C. ansorgii should be fine with the tetra's as long as they don't eat all the food. You would need to keep an eye on it to see how it does with the Gourami.

Clown loaches are commonly kept with mbuna. They are generally compatible as long as both are doing well in your water.

The best tank mates for mbuna are....more mbuna. Search for lesser aggressive mbuna. Most will be compatible with your yellow labs. Also, you could add more yellow labs. Keep in mind that you are going to need a bigger tank to house these groups and you clown loaches.

 

[absolutangel04]

I agree. Putting C. ansorgii with the tetras and gourami is worth a try. He may not get along with the golden gourami though, so be aware of that and watch for issues. Remove if necessary.
You will need a bigger tank for your yellow cichlid as well. I would look into the tank needs of the yellow cichlid and then decide if you feel that is something you are able to accommodate, preferably sooner rather than later. Also, still try to get some pics so we can make sure of what you have.
Sorry about the advice you were given. It is quite frustrating I am sure!