Beer Can as Decor?

[burzw0538]

I am in college and want to have a tank in my dorm. I'd also like to represent my passion for my favorite beer. I got this idea to start a planted tank that looks slightly polluted ...but I don't want to hurt my guppies. i would like to take an empty can and insert an air stone and arrange it with some stones and plants but I am afraid that the can will rust or have some other negative effect on the water quality. does anyone have any ideas of any sealants or compounds to coat my can to be safe without breaking my wallet? Am I just worrying too much? Has anyone else done this before...or had this dream?

Photos if you have them please.

 

[beglely]

I considered this once but alas concluded that I prefer the look of an unpolluted aquarium. I do not believe a can is a good idea. The metals on a can are not healthy, and essentially you are polluting your aquarium. If you find a way to make your can environmentally safe in an economical way, then I think you should get a patent and start up some talks with people in washington haha. As far as I know I dont think there is any way to safely put a can in an aquarium without problems arising. Rust would be a big one. You might try glass bottles though, considering the aquarium is made of glass. Just clean the bottles really well without soap, and I think that might actually work. However to represent your beer you would need a label on the bottle and the label will probably come off eventually underwater

 

[Andrey]

If a can is made of aluminium it won't corrode. But planted tank should looks as a piece of nature so any kinds of pollution are not appropriate. If I wonted to combine fishtank with passion for beer I would use a background whith a proper image.

 

[cwt]

Even if the aluminum itself does not leach into the water (and I'm iffy on that) there are the inks and coating materials which are used for labeling and inside the can (believe it or not, Keystone didn't invent the lined can, despite their ads ;0 ... they all use some sort of food-grade 'stuff' on the inside.)

On the other hand, a green or brown glass beer bottle, label removed and totally cleaned inside and out (think: boil it like driftwood), would be much more a water-neutral object, I'd think. Not saying I recommend it; neither object would have much water circulation in/out of it without two openings, so waste would probably collect in it after a time.

 

[beglely]

If a can is made of aluminium it won't corrode. .

Actually it will to an extent. Aluminum corrosion is the formation of aluminum oxide. Its hard to notice since the corrosion is often white or aluminum looking which disguises the process. This corrosion also forms a layer that protects more aluminum from corroding itself. But I was wrong when I said it would rust

 

[FishEggs]

I guess it would be an american lake aquarium. you'll have to get some bass or trout or maybe bluegill to go with the beer can.

 

[martiniduck]

What if you get gravel in the color of you beer and put the cardboard from a case of it as your background. I would think if you could find a drinking glass or shot glasses with your brands name on it it would be safe to put inside. Anyone know if those will leach in the water?

 

[Mystery]

I think people try to enforce their own aesthetics on others. Planted tanks can't have bright fish, castles are bad as they are out fo scale with the fish etc. If you want to put a can in, put a can in, the fish will not care. Aluminium does not leach as it forms and imperminable oxide coating even on freshly cut surfaces. Just make sure there are no sharp edges that might cut fish and no areas they might squeeze into and get trapped. If you want to do this and like the look of it, go for it!

 

[Da Squid]

I mostly agree with Mystery on the aesthetics, you seem to know/care enough that you won't be making any foolish mistakes. A HUGE word of warning though, I did something similar when I was in college. Had a tank with a Tire tread nose eel (forget the exact name) and boiled some large pint glass bottles for his hiding places. The tank was a big hit but inspired all sorts of drunks to add their own little touches on weekends. I'd wake up in the morning to find the water filthy and dirty bottle caps, cans floating everywhere.
I dont know your living situation, but if you have parties, be very careful. You'd be surprised what intoxicated kids can do to a fish tank without realizing the consequences. Needless to say my pets didnt fare very well and I gave the whole thing up till graduation.

 

[beglely]

This isnt so much enforcing aesthetics as analyizing potential problems with placing a highly reactive metal in an aquatic environment. In fact aluminum does not exist in nature as a free metal as it too chemically reactive--it only exists in mineral compounds. Also, the inside liner of soda and beer cans often has a polymer liner of sorts to protect the liquid from reacting with the can. Soda and beer have a certain acidity to them that can eat away at metals (ever placed a penny in a solution of coca-cola?). Coke has a concentration of .06% acid and a pH between 2.4 and 2.8.
Now drinking out of an aluminum can is safe to an extent, but consumption of low levels of aluminum can have drastic health effects, including osteopenia, neurotoxicity, and alter the function blood-brain barrier. People with allergies to aluminum are more at risk for reactions to low level consumption, and even excessive antacid use causes health problems. Aluminum also increases estrogen-related gene expression in human breast cancer cells, and there have been studies that link aluminum exposure to Alzheimers's disease. This is why soda and beer companies include this liner...so they arent killing customers. A crack in this liner exposes the aluminum to the acid. Granted, the aluminum will oxidize when exposed to water, but acid creates a whole different level of reactions. Throw an aluminum can in a low-pH aquarium and I can bet there will be some reaction and leeching of metals.

 

[beglely]

Also the lining of the can itself contains a compound bisphenol A (BPA), which is used to make polycarbonate plastic. A CDC study of BPA exposure found contamination in 95 percent of its test subjects. Although there is no definative evidence of adverse effects on humans, BPA has been linked to forms of cancer and other illnesses.
Aluminum also reduces plant growth as increased concentrations cause disrupted root growth. Thats why scientists test for the lime-requirements of soil.
The point isnt that people here think an aluminum can is trashy or atypical and therefore wrong in the world of aquascaping, but rather potentially harmful to the inhabitants of your aquarium. If aluminum was harmless, then why do we recycle and dispose of our cans properly rather than just throwing them in lakes? You are recreating a natural environment in an aquarium with living inhabitants. Anything you add that is unnatural can pose a risk. Heck even natural stuff can be problematic, especially if you only have 30 gallons of water to work with instead of thousands in a lake. Granted an aluminum can might be perfectly safe. But its better to be sure that you are making the right move before you kill twenty fish. Im glad burzw0538 asked this question as I was intrigued by the possibility awhile back too. Personally I would stick with glass though as there is probably a less chance of contaminants there. I didnt even touch on all the possibilities of the dyes and paints on a can. Just do your research and make a judgement call. Im not against the idea, but its better to be safe than sorry with a little investigation
No I'm not this smart. I just used google for some fact-finding.

 

[beglely]

Heres a great article to read on the effects of aluminum on an aquarium environment.

Chemistry and the Aquarium

 

[Mystery]

That article discusses soluble aluminum. A beer can will not cause elevated soluble aluminum due to its oxide layer.

Sadly for tank in public areas two drill holes and a padlock are often necessary to prevent meddling.

 

[mgamer20o0]

thats great.... someone is going to see the tank and think its a great idea and add more to the tank....

 

[Andrey]

Thanks to Beglely for the interesting information!

 

[beglely]

That article discusses soluble aluminum. A beer can will not cause elevated soluble aluminum due to its oxide layer.

Well after looking back through some of my chem lab notes and an evening of discussion with a Bio-chem major and pre-med student at BSU, I would say this is incorrect. Yes, aluminum will create a layer of oxide when exposed to water. However, unless your aquarium consists of a perfect 7.0 neutral pH and is composed of distilled water, this oxide layer will not provide permanent protection. Aluminum is highly reactive with acids and bases when solid aluminum is placed into acidic or basic solution. Adding solid zinc, another metal known for its anti-corrosive properties, to a solution of hydrochloric acid causes a reaction that completely dissovles the zinc into aqueous solution. Zinc is used to coat steel aka galvanized steel, but only offers protection from rust for ~10 years. ( Zinc) Why? Because this layer of protection is not permanent and breaks down over time. Copper is also another metal that does not rust but oxidizes into a layer of patina(Patina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Yet place copper into a solution of nitric acid and it forms copper nitride, a bubbly green toxic liquid that also becomes very hot and releases a brown toxic gas known as nitrogen dioxide.
Cu + 4 HNO3 => Cu(NO3)2 + 2 NO2 + 2 H2O

Although neither of these metals are actually aluminum, neither of these metals rust either but oxidize instead when exposed to water. The problem isnt water though, its the alkilinity or acidity of the water the material is in. Human urea alone has a pH that can range from 4.5-8 (Urine pH), so you can imagine that fish urine will have about the same acidity. Also, if you use C02 injection, you are also creating trace amounts of cabonic acid in your aquarium. What else contains carbonic acid? **The very soda or beer that is contained in the alumninum can that requires a polymer lining to prevent the acid from dissolving the can! So you see? Sure, aluminum will oxidize against water, but its not the water you should be concerned about. If you still have doubts here is another equation for you

2Al(s) + 2OH–(aq) + 6H2O(l) => 2[Al(OH)4]–(aq) + 3H2(g)

This is the reaction of solid aluminum to hydroxide ions in water, the very reaction that can occur in you aquarium as aluminum is released into your water. You can perform this experiment yourself and watch an entire aluminum can be eaten away, or at least the sides of it, as the sides of the can are made of a different alloy as explained here: http://www.hschem.org/Laboratory/Flinn/Disappearing Aluminum Can.pdf

Just do some research and you would be amazed at what you find! Personally, id think bottles are smarter, but i would read up first on that as well. I do like the background idea of using the case package if you are shooting for a theme!

 

[burzw0538]

I had intended on finding some sort of thin liquid silicon or other sealant both the inside and outside of the can (cut off the bottom and dip the can in its entirety) ....

So that this layer would prevent the aluminum from rust or chemical leakage

I was thinking some kind of a marine epoxy resin....but I don't know of one that would stick well to aluminum

I was wondering if anyone knew of such a product....

 

[partypalooza5]

I guess it would be an american lake aquarium. you'll have to get some bass or trout or maybe bluegill to go with the beer can.

Don't forget the old car tire and the washing machine!

 

[mom2reds]

Don't forget the old car tire and the washing machine!

and the old shoe or boot (Ha Ha)

 

[kangster]

even if alluminum does get oxidized in the aquarium
the equilibrium constant and the kinetic rate which determines how fast the concentration reaches the toxic level is the main issue as i see it as a chemical engineer
if the rate is slow enough that it takes a very long time to keep up with the water changes, i guess the addition would be ok...

why not try it and if anything goes wrong just take it out...but the cost of this going wrong is the death of your fish...and if you can tolerate that why not...i would just make some holes to allow flow and make sure there are no sharp edges