Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 03-09-2011, 12:11 AM   #1
mus
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
beginner / advice required and ill fish

Hi i have just registered and am new to forums so your understanding is appretiated.

I am fairly new to fish keeping also.

Tank 54ltrs
Cycled
Nearly 2mnths old
I have a betta, swordtail, 3 odessa barbs, white cloud, and a glass bloodfin.

Have a few questions.
Brown alge is growing in my tank i have read about oxygen and have increase airstones etc, i would like to know more about why is it growing in my tank.

Also I have l sadly lost a few fish one of the recent fish was a dwarf gourmami, was breathing heavy tilting sideways etc, that was a couple of weeks ago i now have a betta which I have had from day one, that appears to be doing the same its no tilting ad much but it is breathing heavy and resting at the bottom of the tank, i had tried the peas on the dg and have done so on the betta but it seems like its getting worse by the hour. Could this be related to the dg? And by the way all the other fish are fine. As far as water changes I would like to change the water every 2 weeks 20% but because of the deaths I have changed more regularly and due to unusual behaviour i.e betta not being active.

Can frequent water changes harm the fish?

Sorry for the long post please help answer my questions. Thanks
__________________

__________________
mus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 12:18 AM   #2
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
George9's Avatar

POTM Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,765
Send a message via Yahoo to George9
Frequent water changes are great for fish. Clean water = happy fish! Bettas and Dwarf Gouramis are cousins. Dwarf Gouramis are prone to disease and often is not curable. What your Betta is going through might be related to what happened to the Gourami. How long did your Gourami live? I just got one a week ago, so far so good.
__________________

__________________
-George
George9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 12:37 AM   #3
mus
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
The dg was ok for about a week the it showed ill signs, then lasted a week ill unt it died, it was tiping over breathing hard and opening/ closing it mouth alot, after talking to the guy at the lfs which I had bought it from recommended some anti intrrnal bacteria med but it didnt work. It was also swollen a little on one side.

They are beautiful fish and so are bettas but i dont know if i should replace them or wait until my tank is more mature

My tank is new but it has cycled but only for about 3 weeks now would this mean that my water is still not great but on it way, or once a tank has cycled thats is its fine?

Also about the betta i dont think it will make it. Its just lyin st the bottom I have already thought it died several times due to it being paralized for long periods. Please help
__________________
mus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 01:54 AM   #4
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
James_in_MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus View Post
Tank 54ltrs
Cycled
Nearly 2mnths old
I have a betta, swordtail, 3 odessa barbs, white cloud, and a glass bloodfin.

Have a few questions.
Brown alge is growing in my tank i have read about oxygen and have increase airstones etc, i would like to know more about why is it growing in my tank.

Also I have l sadly lost a few fish one of the recent fish was a dwarf gourmami, was breathing heavy tilting sideways etc, that was a couple of weeks ago i now have a betta which I have had from day one, that appears to be doing the same its no tilting ad much but it is breathing heavy and resting at the bottom of the tank, i had tried the peas on the dg and have done so on the betta but it seems like its getting worse by the hour.
I'm not sure your tank is actually cycled. Firstly, the brown algae is probably a diatom bloom, which happens in newly established tanks. Also, your fish breathing heavy may be a sign of poor water conditions, which likely means that you could have either excess ammonia or nitrites in your tank.

The best thing you could do is get a test kit to check the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels of your tank (liquid, not test strips). API Freshwater Master Test Kit is a great one to go with; another would be Tetra Test Laborette. I happen to have both.
__________________
James_in_MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 02:05 AM   #5
mus
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Hi thank for the reply, i have 0 nitites in the tank but when the tank was new it was very high which is why i assume it has cycled, i will go and get an ammonia tester tommorow. Could it be possible that all nitrites are being coverted into nitrates but not all of the ammonia are? All my other fish are fine by the way 7 in total. The have haf the betta from day 1 and it has never been acting the way it is now.
__________________
mus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 09:38 AM   #6
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
ejaramillo01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 2,288
Send a message via MSN to ejaramillo01
I agree with James.

Looks to me that your tank was not fully cycled, and what your are possible experiencing is high ammonia levels. Also with the medication that you used in the tank, maybe it affected the good bacteria in the filter.

I also recommend you to buy a liquid master kit test from API, you will find it in any fish store. Liquid test is more accurate versus strip test.

Take your own readings and let us know the levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Also what kind of filter do you have?, in my opinion for a 54 litters tank the gourami and the betta together was not the best combination.

After the test, based on the results, you will need to do partial water changes as needed to try to maintain ammonia and nitrites as close to 0 ppm as possible.
Last but not least, yes please don't add more fish until you understand the quality of the water and control the levels.
__________________
=================================
Edgar
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...es-103339.html
ejaramillo01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 10:32 AM   #7
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
gkuzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 335
I agree with Edgar, and James. Although, you shouldn't really have much of a problem keeping a DWARF Gourami and a Betta together. As long as you have hiding spots for each. I've had mine in my tank for over two years now. They don't seem to mind each other at all. Maybe I have freaks, who knows. ha ha.
__________________
gkuzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 12:25 PM   #8
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oak Forest, IL
Posts: 4,388
Welcome! My comments below in blue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mus View Post
Tank 54ltrs
Cycled
Nearly 2mnths old
I have a betta, swordtail, 3 odessa barbs, white cloud, and a glass bloodfin.

Have a few questions.
Brown alge is growing in my tank i have read about oxygen and have increase airstones etc, i would like to know more about why is it growing in my tank.

- The brown algae is actually diatoms. They're common in new tanks. They should burn themselves out in a month or so.

Also I have l sadly lost a few fish one of the recent fish was a dwarf gourmami, was breathing heavy tilting sideways etc, that was a couple of weeks ago i now have a betta which I have had from day one, that appears to be doing the same its no tilting ad much but it is breathing heavy and resting at the bottom of the tank, i had tried the peas on the dg and have done so on the betta but it seems like its getting worse by the hour. Could this be related to the dg? And by the way all the other fish are fine. As far as water changes I would like to change the water every 2 weeks 20% but because of the deaths I have changed more regularly and due to unusual behaviour i.e betta not being active.

- How did you cycle your tank? The hard breathing is often a sign of ammonia poisoning? What are your water parameters?

Can frequent water changes harm the fish?

- Nope. People with discus fry often change 80%+ of their water every day.
__________________
“A man's errors are his portals of discovery.”
Guide to The Fishless Cycle Cycling With Fish
My DIY LED Light Fixture
Feel free to PM me directly with questions.
BigJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 03:09 PM   #9
mus
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Hi thanks for the info guys, im not sure if it ever completed the cycle or if it was because I had upgraded my filter, i was concerned that this might happen but my filter wasnt great it was bundled with my tank.

I went to the lfs and bought an ammonia test and yes i do have ammonia, i have done a water change and will continue to but can the betta recover or is it permanatly damaged?
__________________
mus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 03:13 PM   #10
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oak Forest, IL
Posts: 4,388
Changing your filter got rid of the majority of your beneficial bacteria, making your tank cycle again. You'll have to keep a close eye on the water parameters and try to keep your ammonia levels below 0.25ppm.

Clean water will help your betta the most. If you can keep your ammonia and nitrites down while the tank recycles, your betta may pull through.
__________________
“A man's errors are his portals of discovery.”
Guide to The Fishless Cycle Cycling With Fish
My DIY LED Light Fixture
Feel free to PM me directly with questions.
BigJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 03:16 PM   #11
mus
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Thanks.
__________________
mus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 03:30 PM   #12
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus View Post
Hi thanks for the info guys, im not sure if it ever completed the cycle or if it was because I had upgraded my filter, i was concerned that this might happen but my filter wasnt great it was bundled with my tank.

I went to the lfs and bought an ammonia test and yes i do have ammonia, i have done a water change and will continue to but can the betta recover or is it permanatly damaged?
What has been said above about your filter and the ammonia is correct. I am currently trying to get rid of ammonia in a quarantine tank (because I put fish into it over the weekend for the 1st time) and found out that my filter isn't completely cycled yet because my ammonia level last night was .5ppm - it should be 0 so I changed 50% of the water last night and again this morning to get rid of the ammonia - I will keep changing the water until the ammonia is down to 0.

Getting a liquid test kit is the way to go!
__________________
46 gallon bowed fw: 6 neon tetras, 2 spotted corys, 3 black skirt tetras, 2 zebra danios & 1 white clouds - still stocking!
andreahp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 06:10 PM   #13
Aeo
Aquarium Advice Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by George9 View Post
Frequent water changes are great for fish. Clean water = happy fish! Bettas and Dwarf Gouramis are cousins. Dwarf Gouramis are prone to disease and often is not curable. What your Betta is going through might be related to what happened to the Gourami. How long did your Gourami live? I just got one a week ago, so far so good.
Be careful of the "frequent water changes" advice you get on internet forums. If you live in a part of the country where water is treated with chloramine, it's a fantastic way to kill your fish. Chloramine will kill off your friendly bacteria, causing ammonia levels to spike. You can treat for that but what you can't treat for is your fish becoming food for the single-celled organisms that no longer have tasty bacterial snacks. The result looks like something out of a zombie flick.

In my experience, living in San Francisco, doing a major water change is never a good idea. I've had far better results keeping a few inches of sand in the bottom of the tank for bacterial growth, regularly using a bacterial accelerator, purchasing a good biofilter, and topping up the water. Proper bacterial colonies will eliminate the need for major water changes.
__________________
Aeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 06:24 PM   #14
Aquarium Free - 2+ Years
 
mfdrookie516's Avatar



POTM Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Winchester, Ky
Posts: 19,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeo View Post
Be careful of the "frequent water changes" advice you get on internet forums. If you live in a part of the country where water is treated with chloramine, it's a fantastic way to kill your fish. Chloramine will kill off your friendly bacteria, causing ammonia levels to spike. You can treat for that but what you can't treat for is your fish becoming food for the single-celled organisms that no longer have tasty bacterial snacks. The result looks like something out of a zombie flick.

In my experience, living in San Francisco, doing a major water change is never a good idea. I've had far better results keeping a few inches of sand in the bottom of the tank for bacterial growth, regularly using a bacterial accelerator, purchasing a good biofilter, and topping up the water. Proper bacterial colonies will eliminate the need for major water changes.
I'm sorry, but if you treat with a good water conditioner like Prime, or most any of the bigger names, they all treat chloramine. All chloramine is is chlorine and ammonia (NH2CL). The water conditioner binds the ammonia by adding a hydrogen making it ammonium which is not toxic to fish. This then allows the de-chlorinator to work.

Water changes are never a bad idea unless you don't temp match the water or de-chlorinate first (unless of course you have a boil water advisory, or are on a well with horrible water).
__________________
-Jonathan

"What, exactly, is the internet? Basically it is a global network exchanging digitized data in such a way that any computer, anywhere, that is equipped with a device called a 'modem', can make a noise like a duck choking on a kazoo." - Dave Barry
mfdrookie516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 06:31 PM   #15
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oak Forest, IL
Posts: 4,388
+1 When in doubt, PWC. Always use a dechlorinator.
__________________
“A man's errors are his portals of discovery.”
Guide to The Fishless Cycle Cycling With Fish
My DIY LED Light Fixture
Feel free to PM me directly with questions.
BigJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 06:47 PM   #16
Aeo
Aquarium Advice Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8
I just went ahead and devoted a separate thread to it. The salient point is that it's important to pre-treat the water in a large change vs dumping in a bunch of chloramine and then treating it.

I prefer to regulate my tank using natural means but either version is acceptable.
__________________
Aeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 07:19 PM   #17
mus
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Thank for the info guys, i do always use declorinator.

I want to try the sand thing, how does it help and what type of sand do i need, also how much for my 54ltr tank.
__________________
mus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 11:01 PM   #18
Aeo
Aquarium Advice Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus View Post
Thank for the info guys, i do always use declorinator.

I want to try the sand thing, how does it help and what type of sand do i need, also how much for my 54ltr tank.
I would say lay down three inches but it's going to make a cloudy mess and take hours to settle so make sure you don't have anything alive in there. Pebbles are too loose a substrate to house bacteria, sand works very well. Microbe Lift Special Blend will speed up the process both in your biowheel and in your sand but it smells like the Devil, especially the first time you put it in (no bacteria to eat it yet). I guess I'm saying... don't put the stuff in on a Friday night before dinner because it'll stink for hours. More like Monday morning before you leave for work.

You can add pebbles over the top for looks. A good aquarium store should have sand as well as pebbles. I'm not sure where to tell you to go locally.

It took a full month for my current tank to cycle naturally but it has very steady levels now with only water top-ups vs changes. I know I'm a bit of an evangelist for this method... but I simply couldn't make a tank work with SF water until the guys at Ocean Aquarium showed me their technique (small Chinese family owned store in SF)
__________________
Aeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 09:23 AM   #19
mus
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeo

I would say lay down three inches but it's going to make a cloudy mess and take hours to settle so make sure you don't have anything alive in there. Pebbles are too loose a substrate to house bacteria, sand works very well. Microbe Lift Special Blend will speed up the process both in your biowheel and in your sand but it smells like the Devil, especially the first time you put it in (no bacteria to eat it yet). I guess I'm saying... don't put the stuff in on a Friday night before dinner because it'll stink for hours. More like Monday morning before you leave for work.

You can add pebbles over the top for looks. A good aquarium store should have sand as well as pebbles. I'm not sure where to tell you to go locally.

It took a full month for my current tank to cycle naturally but it has very steady levels now with only water top-ups vs changes. I know I'm a bit of an evangelist for this method... but I simply couldn't make a tank work with SF water until the guys at Ocean Aquarium showed me their technique (small Chinese family owned store in SF)
How would i clean the gravel at a water change would the sand not raise into the water everytime im trying to vacume the gravel?
__________________
mus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2011, 04:51 PM   #20
mus
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Hi guys, it appears that my ammonia are droping, i am currently at 0.25 with regular water changes. Currently there are no nitrites, but should there not be an increase in nitrites. I understand the nitrogen cycle but with your help, please help me understand under which circumstances does the ammonia decrease without the nitrites increasing?
__________________

__________________
mus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beginner

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hello! I am a complete beginner and nervous about getting my first fish. Advice? AnnaKP Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 11 04-09-2010 12:27 AM
Advice Required! RossyBoy Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 8 06-04-2007 04:07 PM
Advice required before starting up Newbie1970 Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 4 02-20-2007 11:12 AM
Clown Loaches feeding advice required swozzie Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 8 05-28-2004 05:08 PM
beginner fish advice utahcutter Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 3 07-09-2003 09:04 PM







» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×