Bettas and Otto's?

[GodFan]

I think she was referring to long term use and not therapeutic usage.

oh my bad then. I was under the impression she was saying not to use it at all.

 

[ashleynicole]

I think she was referring to long term use and not therapeutic usage.

Mostly yes, but even for therapeutic purposes its effectiveness is highly debateable. That's why I said in my opinion it is not necessary to use at all in freshwater . Just my opinion based on research and experience.

Yes bactria do grow in colonies. But the only colonies I have ever seen have been grown on blood agar in a lab. I really don't know if the colonies can grow enough in the tank to be visible. I always just assumed the slime in the filters was just that, slime, maybe some diatoms, because my filters are HOB and they do get ambient room light as well as light on the intake tubes inside the tanks. And they are aquaclear so the casing is clear and light can get through. I always clean it though and have never had any ammonia or nitrite spikes after cleaning it.

 

[aqua_chem]

Mostly yes, but even for therapeutic purposes its effectiveness is highly debateable. That's why I said in my opinion it is not necessary to use at all in freshwater . Just my opinion based on research and experience.

There has been extensive research, done at both the hobbyist and academic level, demonstrating the uses of salt in FW. The two that pop out in my head is in ammonia/nitrite poisoning, where the presence of chloride ions has been shown to reduce LC50 of ammonia and nitrite, and induced hyperosmotic shock of external parasite, such as ich or some flukes. These are well documented cases and widely observed.

Agar-grown bacteria colonies are rather extreme examples of colonization. In the case of our BB, they will form much smaller colonies, but they will be many more of them. So while we may not be able to see individual colonies, the sheer number of there micro-colonies, if you will, colors the filters.

 

[ashleynicole]

There has been extensive research, done at both the hobbyist and academic level, demonstrating the uses of salt in FW. The two that pop out in my head is in ammonia/nitrite poisoning, where the presence of chloride ions has been shown to reduce LC50 of ammonia and nitrite, and induced hyperosmotic shock of external parasite, such as ich or some flukes. These are well documented cases and widely observed.

Agar-grown bacteria colonies are rather extreme examples of colonization. In the case of our BB, they will form much smaller colonies, but they will be many more of them. So while we may not be able to see individual colonies, the sheer number of there micro-colonies, if you will, colors the filters.

Yes but the study I read regarding salt helping to reduce ammonia/nitrite poisoning states that 1tsp in like 500 gallons would achieve this effect. Which is no more than the normal amount of dissolved minerals in tapwater/well water or spring water.

Here is one article I could find quickly on the topic, I will try to find a more research based ones:
Salt in Freshwater Aquariums

http://oscarfish.com/article-home/healthdisease/121-salt-in-the-freshwater-aquarium.html

Also it needs to be pointed out, that although salt can help with nitrite poisoning, many fish simply can not tolerate even low amounts of salt and would die, like cories. Why not just do a water change to reduce the nitrite levels instead of adding salt? For parasite treatments, very large amounts of salt are needed to actually eradicate the parasites, low doses usually don't work. The large amounts of salt again, can be detrimental to many freshwater fish and most plants.

 

[Redd]

Wow, now that's the simplest answer I've heard about fish care, GF and it makes sense. Also, I think Ashley was talking about using the salt for long term use as I am doing.




Godfan, this is what I add to the water each change, what do ya think about these: Nutrafin Aqua plus water conditioner, Stress Coat plus, Kordon Fish Protector maintenance, and API Aquaruim Salt(which I'm gonna stop now). If you can, let me know if I should add, keep, or delete something.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Wow, now that's the simplest answer I've heard about fish care, GF and it makes sense. Also, I think Ashley was talking about using the salt for long term use as I am doing.

Godfan, this is what I add to the water each change, what do ya think about these: Nutrafin Aqua plus water conditioner, Stress Coat plus, Kordon Fish Protector maintenance, and API Aquaruim Salt(which I'm gonna stop now). If you can, let me know if I should add, keep, or delete something.

Ditch the lot IMO! Prime is my choice in dechloinator. All that is needed to be added to a healthy tank is a good dechlorinator and fresh water.

 

[ashleynicole]

There is no substitute for clean water and a cycled aquarium. You do not need all of those additives. The only thing you need is a water conditioner like prime. I think in your arsenal, you could use either the aqua plus water conditioner or the stress coat plus, because they both do the same thing, neutralize chlorine and chloramines and heavy metals. Most of the water conditioners, including prime, help to 'promote slime coat'. You are using a bunch of different named products that do the same thing


Here is another thread I found on here, from many years ago, lol, where the salt issue was discussed as well...
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/why-use-salt-in-freshwater-tank-55562.html

 

[GodFan]

I think you should cut everything but the stress coat plus. The other 2 do the exact same thing as the stress coat.

 

[GodFan]

Now I personally like prime more than any other but if I was chosing another it would be stress coat.

 

[Redd]

Mannn, you all are hittin it out the park! This info is great, just wish i'd known sooner. Mumma, Ashley, and Godfan, do yall know how much stuff I have in a bag that I don't even use? I'm sure its a lot of products that do the same thing under diff names, but most looked good as I read the labels in the store. I still have 2more big bottles of the Nutrafin conditioner, so should I just finish it? Can I get "Prime" at the pet stores or is that a online product?

 

[aqua_chem]

Prime is much more conveinet for large tanks because of how concentrated it is. I like stress coat for out betta tanks because of the little squirter bottles.


I defer to the primary literature in this case rather than hobbyist sites. In this case, I will refer to the following papers:

http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/congress/1994/tomasso.pdf

http://cires.colorado.edu/limnology/pubs/pdfs/Pub079.pdf

Influence of Nitrite and Chloride Concentrations on

They are all unanimous that salt has a significant impact on nitrite LC50. Lewis states one study where doubling the chloride concentration from 10 to 20 doubled the LC50, and doubling it again from 20 to 40 yet again doubled the fish's resistance to nitrite toxicosis. Another example showed that a salt level of 250 ppm "greatly increased the tolerance of striped bass exposed to a normally lethal concentration of 250 ppm".

While I agree that salt can't be used in some cases, saying that it should never be used is simply incorrect.

 

[ashleynicole]

you can get prime at petstores. I wouldn't throw away the nutrafin. I would go ahead and finish it up first, then switch to prime when you run out.

 

[ashleynicole]

They are all unanimous that salt has a significant impact on nitrite LC50. Lewis states one study where doubling the chloride concentration from 10 to 20 doubled the LC50, and doubling it again from 20 to 40 yet again doubled the fish's resistance to nitrite toxicosis. Another example showed that a salt level of 250 ppm "greatly increased the tolerance of striped bass exposed to a normally lethal concentration of 250 ppm".

While I agree that salt can't be used in some cases, saying that it should never be used is simply incorrect.

yes but... salt in that high of concentrations is detrimental to plants and many scaleless fish, loaches, plecos, corys, etc. And why would you want to add that much salt, when you could just do a water change and get rid of the nitrites/nitrates?

 

[GodFan]

yes but... salt in that high of concentrations is detrimental to plants and many scaleless fish, loaches, plecos, corys, etc. And why would you want to add that much salt, when you could just do a water change and get rid of the nitrites/nitrates?

I agree that salt should not be used regularly except with maybe mollies. However I think for healing and treating sickness and sometimes injuries salt is a great tool.

 

[ashleynicole]

I agree that salt should not be used regularly except with maybe mollies. However I think for healing and treating sickness and sometimes injuries salt is a great tool.

I think its better as a salt bath for a specific fish as opposed to treating the entire tank. That's why I said, its just my opinion bases on my experience and research

nothing beats clean water and a strong immune system.