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Old 01-26-2005, 11:10 PM   #1
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Black Moor

I have a black moor for two years now, who is in the middle of changing color. It lives with another black moor, koi, and a gold fantail. The problem with him is that a couple of hours ago i noticed that his tail looked kind of shredded and that his fins are like half gone. When i got home, he was swimming real fast too, which he normally never does. He was swimming like he was frantic. Now he is swimming kind of slow and he rarely moves what is left of his arm. My other black moor who is not completely gold, went through the color change, but his fins have never shreded. What i would like to know is it normal to start having shreded fins? Will they regrow? What is the cause of this and how to prevent it from completely taking out his fins?
Thank You
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Old 01-27-2005, 05:06 AM   #2
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First, we need to know more information.

How many gallons is the tank?
You've had the fish for two years, is that how long the tank they are in been up and running with fish in it?
What kind of filter do you have?
When was the koi introduced into the tank?
What are the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels and what does the pH read?

Fins can grow back so long as there isn't any nerve damage along the base of the fins. Shredded fins can be caused by nipping from tank mates and bacterial infections. Fins shredded by another fish can become infected. You can put a little MelaFix in the tank to help protect the fins and aid in healing and regrowth. You could also add a little bit of freshwater aquarium salt. Watch the koi. He or she could be a culprit.
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Old 01-27-2005, 08:20 AM   #3
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Thanks for the information TCT, but i surely hope that it isn't the koi who is biting him!
The tank is so far only five gallons, we purchased a 44 gallon that is coming in two weeks.
Well, the black moor lived with another fish before, that died i'd say in a one gallon, then we got the 5 gallon and got two more fish. So we have had the tank for a year.
The koi was introduced into the tank in the middle of August. He was very small then but now he is larger then the rest of the fish.
The filter is the 5 gallon filter deluxe. I'll get the number later, and i haven't tested for any of those.
Also, I've noticed that he has a little row of almost like white bubbles that are very small on his fins, could this be the bacteria? And should i put the black moor in a serparate tank or the koi?
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Old 01-27-2005, 09:07 AM   #4
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You should isolate the black moore if possible. This way the fish can be treated without interferring with the other fish.

Do the white spots look like grains of salt? If so, it may be ich. Ich is a pesty parasite and should be treated right away. Use the MelaFix and salt I mentioned on an earlier post. Treat the tank and the black moore.

I have a funny feeling that either a high level of nitrates are causing a bacterial infection or a pushy koi is causing these problems...possibly both.

Please do realize that koi can reach 36"...that's 3 feet. Koi are also shaped very differently from the fantails. Koi are shaped like comets. They are sleek and slender. Fantails are round, bulgy and slow. In such a small tank, these animals are trying to tolerate each other without losing territory to one or the other. The koi has an advantage. It's stronger and faster and can achieve dominance over space in the tank you have. High nitrates can infect wounds.

At the LFS I work for, I keep koi, comets, and shubunkins separate from fantails because everytime I've put them together, the fantails ended up with chewed fins.

You have a desicion to make about the koi. Not only can the koi become a menace to fantails, but it will outgrow your tank (including the 44 gallon you have on order). A three foot animal needs a lot of room. Especially when it swims. My goodness they can get big. I've seen 2.5 to 3 foot koi. Definiately a far cry from the average 6" comet, subunkin, or fantail.

Please inform us of the test results when you get the chance to do a test. Your LFS will test it for you if needed.
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Old 01-27-2005, 11:34 AM   #5
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Check this thread to see if your fish has ich:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showqu...q=2&fldAuto=32

If it is ich, you need to treat the whole tank. I'm not a goldfish keeper, but I don't think they like the high temps recommended in the article.
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Old 01-27-2005, 08:28 PM   #6
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i read most of the article and i belive that he has ich. he does have little white things growing on his fins. So i am wondering right now where do i get nitrate testers and melatrix? Thanks so much!
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Old 01-27-2005, 08:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Do the white spots look like grains of salt? If so, it may be ich. Ich is a pesty parasite and should be treated right away. Use the MelaFix and salt I mentioned on an earlier post. Treat the tank and the black moore.
Don't get melafix. This is a anti-fungal medicine and will do nothing at all for parasites. Find yourself any parasite ridding medicine and use that.

Quote:
If it is ich, you need to treat the whole tank. I'm not a goldfish keeper, but I don't think they like the high temps recommended in the article.
Don't raise the temperatures too high. A max temp of around 78 degrees (IMO) is ok for treating goldies. The salt should work well too. Raise your temps VERY slowly over the course of many hours. Goldfish require lots of oxygen, which isn't present in higher temps, so you would be causing more stress to your fish than good.

Quote:
So i am wondering right now where do i get nitrate testers
You can pick up a FW master test kit (tests for nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, pH, etc) at any pet store.

good luck!
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Old 01-27-2005, 09:09 PM   #8
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thank you so very much! i hope he gets better soon, i'll go put him in a separate tank as soon as i get him a bubbler. also, how much salt should i add to the water? and do you think that i should take the koi out still? i mean he could have bit the black moor too because each time the koi goes near him now he swims pretty quick!
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Old 01-27-2005, 09:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
also, how much salt should i add to the water?
You need to buy aquarium salt (not table or marine salt) just to clarify. Use 1 tsp perr 5 gallons. Part of your problem too could be stress. 3 goldies in a 5 gal tank is WAY too much. You need to stay vigilant on water changes and such until you get that 44 gal tank. And get that test kit, asap.

Quote:
and do you think that i should take the koi out still? i mean he could have bit the black moor too because each time the koi goes near him now he swims pretty quick!
That's hard to say. It could just look like the koi is getting him.
If the moor has some frayed fins because of the ich, the koi could be going after him. Get him isolated as soon as possible though.
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Old 01-28-2005, 08:09 AM   #10
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well i do believe that my black moor has ich. thanks so much guys! and we also decided to take the koi out and put him in a one gallon for now because he was also biting the black moor! my mother is also going to get the FW testing kit this afternoon so everything will be fixed! thanks so much again! don't know what my and my fishy's would have done without you guys!
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